The Hill’s Blog Briefing Room » Mich. Gov.: Vote Against Auto Bailout “Un-American”

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December 12, 2008

Mich. Gov.: Vote Against Auto Bailout "Un-American"

@ 11:18 am by Michael O'Brien

Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm (D) said it was "un-American" for senators to have voted against approving a bailout of troubled automakers last night, saying their vote may cause a recession to become a depression.

"It is unacceptable for this un-American, frankly, behavior of these U.S. senators to cause this country to go from a recession into a depression," Granholm said during a radio interview Friday morning.

Negotiations over an agreement to assist Michigan's Big Three stalled last night in a 52-35 vote on a procedural motion to bring up the package for a vote. Republicans largely opposed the bill after it failed to win concessions from the United Automotive Workers union on wages and benefits.

�It is such an unbelievable stab at workers across the country,� Granholm added. �You give this big bailout to these financial institutions–don�t ask a single question, they can do what they want–and then you lay the blame for the auto industry, which is a victim of this financial meltdown, on the backs of the people who are working on the line.�

Granholm, along with members of Michigan's congressional delegation, have been pressing for lawmakers to pass an assistance package. All but one member of Michigan's House and Senate delegation have voted in favor of the package.

Rep. Tim Walberg, a first-term Republican defeated in his bid for reelection, was unable to make the vote due to a medical procedure the day of the vote. He has stated he would vote in favor of the package.

Updated 4:08 p.m. to correct that Rep. Walberg did not vote against the package, but, rather, did not vote due to medical reasons.

Archived under: Economy & Budget, Lawmaker News, News

548 Comments »

The Hill welcomes comment from anyone and will almost always post it whether it is favorable or critical, as long as it is substantive and advances debate.

The governor might want to go to China and get the 14 billion dollars from them.

Comment by russ — December 12, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
Enjoy your cheese, because when the unemployment rate goes from 6.6% to 16.6% with the loss of over 3 million jobs in the OEM, and the supplier base, and car parts grow more scarce, you will find another sobering perspective.
If we can bail out the freakin banking industry that the government legislated into oblivion with CRA, why can we not bail out the auto industry, that the government has legislated into oblivion also?

Comment by Mike — December 12, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
Surely this story can't be true. It is only the horrible Republicans who do things like accuse their opponents of being un-American.

Comment by Orman — December 12, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
The Governor must have a membership at the Black Lake Golf Club….

Comment by Carrier E — December 12, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
What's Un-American is she and her state being so inept in business and then wanting to bailed out at everyone else's expense ………. drop dead

Comment by lwayne — December 12, 2008 @ 1:28 pm
chapter 11 was good enough for the airlines. no one has to lose their job and they can be competitive. UAW doesnt want to play ball. f em.

Comment by john — December 12, 2008 @ 1:28 pm
If you bailout the autos why not the airlines and everyone else. Where does it stop??? Is the little guy's store less important????

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
Un-American? 100 elected representatives get together and vote on an issue, and it's Un-American?

The government meddling with free enterprise, THAT is Un-American.

Comment by Lee — December 12, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
I am sorry, but the UAW should be held accountable. Stop trying to finger point at the Senate, the President and even the Big 3 CEOs…

The UAW is what has caused the entire automotive empire to split at the seams….and what concessions did they make? NONE…until 2011. Nice. Growing up Pro-Union, I understand the politics…but the arrogance shown by the UAW BEGS for the to be shut down. Sweet Dreams UAW…see you in the after life.

Comment by No Kool-Aid for You — December 12, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
The State of Michigan needs to become a Right to Work State. Unions and Democrats have ruined this beautiful state. Bankrupt/Bust the unions. Vote No on the bailout. While your at it, Jenny - we have certainly been "blown away" by your high taxes and anti-capital/anti jobs programs. Tax and spend = ruination.

Comment by Freddie Mercury — December 12, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
Go to Hell, Granholm… or even better, go the F*@$ back to Canada. The last thing we need is Canook ho's lecturing us about what is or is not un-American.

Comment by Edward — December 12, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
She's right. For a party that waves the flag all the time, Republicans in the South seem to be taking a lot of marching orders from their new found Chinese buddies. They complain about the UAW and the immigrant, but never fail to defend the rights of foreign countries to dump products on American soil for slave wages. If you are going to wave the flag in my face, I'd say, start with supporting American manufacturing first and foremost. Outsourced manufacturing to Japan didn't win World War II. In fact, I think they were on the other side!

Comment by Todd Bandrowsky — December 12, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
By her apparent definition of "un-American" I would guess her job as Governor of Michigan and its failing economy is un-American. She seems to be an expert on this term by personal experience.

News flash: There is nothing un-American about cooperating with economic forces and being realistic.

Comment by Ken Menzies — December 12, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
thats a pretty funny comment made by the Canadian born Granholm…eh? Un-American?

Comment by joe57 — December 12, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
So now it's un-American to vote AGAINST socialism??

This bailout (and all others) amount to nothing more than socialism in America. It is these bailouts that are un-American.

Everyone who voted against the bailout (and any bailout) is voting FOR America, not against her.

Comment by Greg — December 12, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
The whore governor of Michigan, who destroyed the State's economy with taxes and regulation, can suck it. Keep her thieving hands off my wallet.

Comment by Crow — December 12, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
It is un-American the way the company execs have ensured failure of these institutions by:
- Bowing to union demands to continue paying laid off workers
- Bowing to union demands to continue buying health care benefits for retirees

In a capitalist society these companies would die and better companies would emerge. In our current socialist society they are going to just keep doing what they are doing and the taxpayers are going to keep them afloat.

Gov Granholm is a socialist. Barak Obama is a socialist. Apparently President Bush is as well.

Comment by John Coctostin — December 12, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
Very simple solution. Put it on the news that they will get the bailout when the UAW agrees to renegotiate contracts. Let everyone decide who is causing the problem.

Mike, everyone has a 401k, stocks, bank accounts. But not everyone gives a crap about GM or Chrysler…..heck, Chrysler is PRIVATE. Insane to pass my taxes to those clowns that make $60k using a drill. Let them use their savings from being paid too much money all these years.

Comment by Ryan — December 12, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
Governor Granholm is an un-American lapdog of the Unions!

Comment by Sheila — December 12, 2008 @ 1:33 pm
So, voting against a bailout with MY tax dollars that supports union members making TWICE as much as I do is "Un-American"? I am unamerican if I can't see clear to support line workers making $160k per year in salary and benefits?

Sorry, but I am not buying that.

Comment by rdhood — December 12, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
Michigan's voting record on protecting American workers: http://grades.betterimmigration.com/delegation.php3?District=MI

An average of C-

Comment by Smitty — December 12, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
Governor, get a grip on your life! Better yet, get a grip on your UAW!

Comment by Charles M — December 12, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
No Todd, we value hard work, ingenuity, and the capitalist system. Not a bunch of overpaid slugs collectively voting Democrat so they can retain their $40/hr coffee break while making crappy cars. Moreover, the "south" and the penchant for Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks are the only things keeping these losers "on the line". All your crowd is doing is bemoaning every car isn't a Prius and creating restraints on Detroit that concurrently bolster the Union, hurt the manufacturer and make everything more expensive for all of us. Oh, and that isn't a flag I'm waving in your face libtard.

Comment by JDW — December 12, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
I have to agree with many other comments. What's unamerican is asking tax payers to save a private business. Did GM give tax payers any of their profits when business was good? The only thing more un-american is the fine Gov calling those who are trying to guard our tax dollars as unamerican.

Comment by eldo1 — December 12, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
It is Un-American not to make the cuts NOW like the rest of us. This shows the UAW is too big, too proud, and requires a great big attitude adjustment. 30 years ago, they were viable and justified…in today's climate, they are leeches on the financial body of the auto industry.

No concessions? Alright. Then you are fired. Did you hear me Ron Gettelfinger??? FIRED. Now go away with your strong arm tactics that rival Hugo Chavez…

Comment by No Kool-Aid for You — December 12, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
So a Canadian is tell us what is un-American.

Comment by Hugh — December 12, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
No Governor it is unAmerican for you to ask Americans for money. You used the workers as a ploy to force Congress to give you the money, shame on you. I am one of the @ 10 million unemployed workers; where is my bailout. The UAW wouldn't take a pay cut, I would gladly take their job at half the wages. I would just love to have a job. How ungrateful can you be.

Comment by teresa — December 12, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
WHAT???? I'll tell you what's un-American… sending all the work to China… paying union thugs to do nothing… building crap cars for years… screwing the American people for years, then crying like a baby when it backfires on you. Paying upper management rediculous wages for allowing their company to get into this mess. THAT is un-American. Govenor, go belly-ache somewhere else. We are ALL going to pay for your state's screw-up, whether the big 3 get $14B or not… it's only a patch anyway… not a solution and you know it.

Comment by American — December 12, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
letting them go bankrupt is very American. After Chrysler falls, the UAW loses influence, Ford and perhaps GM will be back at it making cars.

I drive a Toyota and have for a while, I feel I get better value. My Toyota was made with parts from all over the world, assembled in Canada, Sold and serviced in the US.

The whole auto bailout is just code words for the Democrats meaning "don't let the union voting block be broken"

If the unions are broken, God, I hope they are, then the American consumer is the winner. We will get more for our dollar and a better car. The economy will be better for it in the long run.

Isn't it the American way of competition? The winner is rewarded with customers and the loser is sent packing? Toyota, BMW, Mercedes came to the US, built cars in the right-to-work states and legitimately won in business.

Un-American is protecting favorite classes, like the communists did leading to failure. Creative destruction is a necessary component of healthy growth.

Comment by Jim — December 12, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
Do you idiots who support the bailout not realize that if the firms declare bankruptcy, they can reorganize, cut labor costs, and come out better in the end, just like airlines have done?

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
So now it's un-American to vote AGAINST socialism??

Yes in Bizarro world, its also immoral to vote against gay marriage!

Comment by Smitty — December 12, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
The Governor of Michigan is not even an idiot…That would be an insult to idiots

Comment by John Tomado — December 12, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
The US Senate could not even run their own cafeteria profitably. Why would anyone believe that this Congress is capable of guiding the automakers out of the problems that the Congress caused?

Comment by ElmhurstMike — December 12, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
It seems to me that obliging tax payers who, as group, mostly earn a lot less than auto workers to subsidize their salaries,pensions and health care is both Un-American and unfair.Typical union arrogance that every one ought to pitch in but their membership

Comment by Lynn — December 12, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Why is the failure of American auto companies the fault of American taxpayers?

Why is it Americans' responsibility to shore up bad businesses? If that were the case — if we really were required to throw more of our tax money into unsustainable business practices — then we wouldn't be America.

Comment by Paul — December 12, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
To the people of Missed-again (Michigan),

You voted for these clowns…Now you live with it !!!

Comment by James Stommer — December 12, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Bailing out any private company is un-American. We are supposedly capitalists operating under a risk/reward philosophy. The UAW is, also, un-American because they are now pure socialists. Ms. Governor of Michigan is either clueless, biased or (probably) both.

I have always purchased from the big 3 up until now. Never again! I went to the UAW website to see which vehicles they make; from that I made a 'no buy' list.

Comment by Dan — December 12, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Un-american? Did she actually say that. To hell with this bailout. Why do they think Americans will suddenly buy thier cars after we bail them out?

Comment by yoodles — December 12, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Live it, UAW. This is your bed, sleep in it.

Comment by Lee Iacoca — December 12, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Un-American is making CRAPPY CARS…drop dead Michigan!!!

Comment by laurence — December 12, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Todd Bandrowsky–

Japan was on the other side during WWII, but China was on our side. So what's your point? Oh yeah, you don't have one.

Comment by DCist — December 12, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Its "un-american" not to bail them out? That statement is childish and ridiculous. I thought America was about succeeding without the help of big brother.
What is 'un-american" is taking my tax money and giving it on companies and unions that are incapable of making a profit due to circumstances that they have instilled upon themselves.
Screw the UAW - nobody deserves to make the kind of money they pay for the job they do. I know a UAW workier who makes $110K per year to drive a forklift. What??? Lets get real -that job should pay about $10/hour.
Unions suck the lifeblood from corporations - its no wonder so many of them have moved their manufacturing overseas - the unions have priced themselves right out of the market due to a little thing called "greed". And no, the unions aren't the only greedy ones here - the execs of that industry are guilty of that as well.

Comment by Jonny Honest — December 12, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
The Gov of Michigan could screw-up a wet dream….

Comment by Grandolfo Growden — December 12, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
these clowns average 73$ with pay and benefits…its unamerican to pay people not to work, as GM does, to pay someone 100k to run a forklift, GM does and to pay someone 26$ an hour to cut grass…I will never buy another american car…96K on my windstar, transmission gone…82K on my Durango, transmission gone…these are family vehicles, 220K on my honda accord and 185K on my camry…those drunken UAW folks dont get it…clowns…let them fail…

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Mike - why worry about the supplier base now? When the union throws its strike tantrum it counts on the supplier base being hurt! It intentionally plans to hurt as much of the overall workforce as possible! I have no pity for these bums!

Comment by Darnel — December 12, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
I think I might take the advice of the Republican Senators and file for Chapter 11 myself. I am in bad deals with my mortgage, since my home is worth half of what I paid in just a couple of years. And why should I pay taxes in Michigan when about a third of the state will do the same. Eventually when the dust settles schools will be in the toilet and crime on the rise. If there are no jobs why should i keep scrimping to pay what is viewed as a bad business deal. Reorganize and start over … I think I will take your advice Mr. Shelby.

Comment by Josh — December 12, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
The UAW has always made crap. Nothing that GM, Ford, or Chrysler can produce in the future will lure me back to their car lots. Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus understand quality and customer service and hence will survive. Let the UAW be destroyed through bankruptcy - now that's patriotic!

Comment by M. Wilkison — December 12, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Let 'em file for bankruptcy like any other business. Maybe then they will get some leadership that can actually run a business. Get rid of the 80K$/yr. skilled labor taskforce and they might actually have a chance to compete with the foreign automakers. Blah Humbug.

Comment by Mister Hate — December 12, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Which auto companies are doing bad, and which are doing good? The ones that are connected to the UAW are the ones failing, and the non-union ones are succeeding.

The UAW is responsible for this mess. They may get tax dollars stoking fear and buying politicians, but, you can't get me to buy their cars.

Have you ever looked at a parking lot of Al Gore supporters at one of his rallies? You can't get them to buy a UAW car either.

Comment by Honda — December 12, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
Once again, the unions and their lapdog Democrat flunkies can't handle the truth. It's no wonder they can't keep a business operating in the black.

Send your Michigan govenor back to Canada, force GM and Chrysler into Chapter 11 and see if the two companies and their workers have the intestinal fortitude to bring their companies back to profitability.

Comment by Leroy — December 12, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm (DEMOCRAT) is another Dem that is bought and paid for by the corupt UAW.
What is un-american is her attitude that tax paying Americans from the other 49 states must bailout her ineptitude in governing her state.
She has personally been responsible for not getting the new Toyota plant that went to Mississippi, VW plant that went to S. Carolina and the Hyndai plant built in Alabama.
That is 20,000 jobs that the fine people of Michigan never had the opportunity to be considered for.
She is a total disgrace.

Comment by Jerry Donato — December 12, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
"And in the 5th year you are going to be blown away" - Jennifer Granholm 2005 - telling people what would happen to them in the first year of her second term. Most of the people that got blown away wound up in Indiana, Ohio, Illinois and the remaining 46 states. Does it tell you something about the people of Michigan, that they reelected her? By the way, is it un-American for you to own a non-American car?

Comment by Mike — December 12, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
Let me say upfront that I in no way support an automaker bailout, but you can't help but feel for the "unfairness" of their plight in the sense that Congress was all gung-ho to bail out the banks when they came begging. It shows you the loss of influence that the Big 3 have experienced in DC, and the loathsome influence that the banks have over the suck-ups on Capitol Hill. The hypocrisy on both sides of the political aisle is mind-boggling. The American public, union or non-union, and the future of our children is being sold down the river by the most despicable ruling class in history.

"Here is a Congress that is running a trillion dollar official on-budget deficit this year, and that has run up $70 trillion in unfunded Medicare and Social Security obligations, lecturing three CEO's of busted car companies about their failure to plan." - Gary North, economist

Comment by Timothy — December 12, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
I'm sorry… the only thing un-American here is the govenor of Michigan! My God! Look what she (and the unions) have done to that state. Maybe the next election cycle the good people of the great state of Michigan will pull their heads out and vote for a fiscal conservative…

Comment by Atl_al — December 12, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
"Un-American" is that fact that people want to reward a poorly run business. Even if times are tough, what it is government going to do….bail out all businesses that are struggling? Let the free market ride. This country stands for a free democracy and capitalism.

Comment by Phil — December 12, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
What kind of jerk is Jennifer Granholm? The kind that brought Michigan down. To consider hand-outs to those who planned poorly as an "American" thing to do shows little knowledge of history.

Henry Ford, William C. Durant (GM), and Walter Chrysler created these companies and stood on their own. That is "American"!!

Comment by Ken in Oregon — December 12, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
I work in the auto industry, this is hurting me. Jenny you need to stop prolonging the pain. Let the market forces work. The central planning method you favor has never increased the living standard for the public. Your methods have not worked for Michigan. SOCIALISM will favor groups with political power like the UAW at the expense of the tax payer. Go back north we have had enough of you.

M A

Comment by M A Rand — December 12, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
"You give this big bailout to these financial institutions�don�t ask a single question, they can do what they want"

Uh, that bailout failed the first time it came up for a vote, Jennifer. And most of those against unconditionally bailing out Detroit were also against the original no-strings financial sector bailout. There's no inconsistency here from Vitter or Corker, for instance.

And don't ignore a key difference between the two disciplines: bad as it is, the financial bailout has been credibly presented as a one-time special circumstance that was needed to get lenders over a particular hump. But GM for instance isn't even pretending that their circumstances are analogous to Citi's; the Big3 execs were forced to admit that a bailout isn't going to put them back on their feet, it's just going to pay their operating expenses for a quarter - at which point they'll be back for another handout, forcing taxpayers to throw good money after bad.

As for un-American, where to start? It's un-American not to prop up poorly run unprofitable industries with public funds? Since when? If so, we can use more such un-American activity.

Comment by Patrick — December 12, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
UNIONS are unamerican!!!!

UNIONS are nothing more than bullies and gangsters. We don't owe you anything!!!

Can't we just give Michigan to Canada and be done with it???

Comment by sharon — December 12, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
Alot of people don't realize anything except what the media spoon feeds them. This bailout plan, and all the other ones before are simply ridiculous. You live within you means - as a person, community, state, and country.

To say that it is unAmerican to bailout the UNION people who make 7 x more money than I do, is an unAmerican thing to do to ME!!!

Comment by lynnd — December 12, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
if it werent for fleet sales, these boobs would have been gone a long time ago

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
The UAW should have been kneecapped long ago. Let GM and the other auto makers go bankrupt. Clear the decks of the union.
We will not have a Depression. The drunken spree at Treasury will not hipe the economy, just pay off the money folks the big places. Robert Rubin and the Citibank crowd made bad betters, and the taxpayers have paid. I was not for any bailout with printed money. Causes inflation.
Sorry UAW. No printed money for the taxpayers. Get a job and value like the rest of the work force.
Longdrycreek Ranch, TX

Comment by James A. Glasscock — December 12, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
The day of union has come and gone. Let the UAW fail if that is what it takes. US automakers cannot compete with foreign auto makers with their current labor costs. The Dems seemed to be upset when they were called out on national security issues, now they try to pin the Repubs with the same moniker. Gov. Granholm can get bent!

Comment by Dennis — December 12, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
eldo: Did GM give tax payers any of their profits when business was good?

Eldo - sure they did through the federal taxation of profits. Perhaps if we lowered overall corporate tax rates (or set them to zero because the corporation just passes the tax on to the consumer) the corporation may have more money on hand for operations - and Washington less to feed its vast bureaucracies.

Comment by Freddie Mercury — December 12, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
Wow. Nice commentariat you've got going here.

Comment by J — December 12, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
have you noticed all the new Toyotas in the rental car lots…I rented a Toyota minivan at DFW in September…I had never seen a Toyota at Alamo before…that should really scare these clowns…

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
Wasn't Rep. Walberg in the hospital?

Comment by me — December 12, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
What would Granholm know about being American anyway? She's a bloody Canadian!

Comment by Stuart — December 12, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
I must be un-American. I don't think the UAW bailout should pass. Let the union officials get a real job and work for there living instead of stealing out of the pockets of the workers.

Comment by Michael W — December 12, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
No!! what's un-American is the stranglehold the unions have on the Democrats!!!! Mr. Big Shot union boss — make concessions so your company can continue to employ your membership…or take a hike.

Comment by Lindy Taxpayer — December 12, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
Unamerican? It doesn't get any funnier!

Comment by cv — December 12, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
Socializing private businesses, and/or the taxpayers providing a private business a loan or bailout, is what is un-American.

Granholm can suck an egg for all I care. The people will get through it. Perhaps the union leadership should pay back some of the graft they took out of the union's coffers?

Comment by Campbell — December 12, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
Well, there won't be any money left in your wallet when this industry goes down. Then you can kick back in the depression and pat yourself on the back for not spending "your" money. You'll have plenty of time to reflect because you won't be off to any job!

Comment by Kate Myers — December 12, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
Michigan is an inept State. The United Auto Workers (UAW) with their horde of unskilled, overpaid, over-benefited, entitlement-minded members are the Un-American ones here. To hell with them.

Comment by Phil — December 12, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
The democrats and the unions have ruined this country,it has never dawned on this uaw union that auto companies are to make a profit. No just cater to the unions every whim. I am not against unions, but the uaw must be brought under control!

Comment by suzanne — December 12, 2008 @ 1:50 pm
you could train a 14 year old kid to do 95% of the jobs on the floor at these places…I would not be surprised if the Granada or the K-car made a comeback with these clowns

Comment by mark — December 12, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
i left her a wonderful email and advised her to learn a few things from Ron Paul.

Comment by brian — December 12, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
1. We have the UAW which has the choice of taking cuts to put it in line with the non-union car companies and keeping their jobs, or standing firm and then having no jobs.

2. We have the Republicans who are screaming "Off with their heads", but refuse to take responsibility for their own lack of oversite of the banking industry which got us into this mess….and by refusing the loans will throw millions out of work and just keep snowballing ….. can we say "Great Depression, Act II

3. We have the folks who say, let them sink, it's not my job….but don't raise my taxes to provide assistance to all those out of work.

Wake up people!!!! "Stupid is as stupid does"

Comment by Sue — December 12, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
What a joke. It's unamerican. Welcome to free enterprise. During bad times good companies get to cut some fat out of the company. Some will fall. It's just weeding out the herd. Don't bail them out and lets see where the chips fall.

Comment by Brian — December 12, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
Unions are Un-American and they are forcing auto companies to over spend, which effects their profit margin and is why they are in the current situation.

The average UAW member gets paid $73 DOLLARS Per Hr.

According to the UAW website: "The UAW has approximately 640,000 active members and over 500,000 retired members in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico."

Let's do the math…$73 per hour x 40 hours = $2920 per week for 1 UAW Active Employee.

$2920 x 640,000 = $1,868,800,000 or 1.8 Billion in Salary before Benefits are even thrown into the picture or retirement pay and THIS IS FOR ONE WEEK!

It is Un-American to pay people more than they are worth.

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
The UAW workers make an average of $69 an hour, non-union auto workers $48 and hour.

Enough said.

Comment by Jason — December 12, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
Jennifer, this bailout is un-american.

Comment by Bob — December 12, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
Jennifer Granholm is an ignorant fool, and a perfect example of what is wrong with politicians.

The world doesn't revolve around Michigan and their piss-poor automobile industry.

These businesses failed because of bad corporate governance, they should be restructured or liquidated. NO BAILOUT!!

.

Comment by Gary — December 12, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
I thought with the election of Obama everthing would be solved. No these same little Democrat peckerheads want Bush to fix it. Kudo's to the Senate Republicans

Comment by John Faryenhu — December 12, 2008 @ 1:53 pm
Since when does a Commie like Granholm know what is un-American. She and all the bailout pushers think more of the UAW than they do their constituents.

Comment by George A — December 12, 2008 @ 1:53 pm
In few months we will find out the the automakers missed again - nobody will want the crap they will be making because the gasoline will stay at $135/gallon or less.

I mean - more than year ago it was clear that the oil will go up. They started screaming just when the price peaked.

There execs are simply clueless and will waste the money.

I can state this, because I got out of oil stocks (CANROYs and AMROYs) more than year ago. I controlled my greed and did not wait for the drop. And the automakers? Dumber than draft horses.

Comment by stary kozel — December 12, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
A bailout was right there on the table for all to see! Guess who flinched?

This is not about patroitism. This is about Detroit, and I guess Michigan, wanting the rest of us to fund never ending welfare for an industry and a State that can not cut it own it own.

And you wonder why there is so little symphty for Detroit. The answer is simply. The vast majority of us have owned a piece of over priced junk made in Detroit sometime in the last 15 years.

I have owned two. A 1993 Dodge that lost both its air conditioning and transmission before 50,000 miles and a 2005 Buick that has been back to the dealer four times and the problem is still not fixed.

My wife has a 1999 Nison product with 95,000 miles that has never seen the dealership.

I have also owned two Honda products and a Mazda that accumulated an aggregrate of approximately 290,000 miles without ever seeing the dealership.

And Detroit thnks it deserves a bailout!

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
No, you pathetically ignorant moron - what is un-American is to expect the governemnt to bail out poorly managed companies who are beholden to unions for ridiculous compensation to unskilled and semi-skilled laborers. What's un-American is to expect the government to take care of you. What's un-American is to presume that the government can be everything to everyone.

Perhaps you dimwit socialists in the democrat party should go back and re-read your history books, no, not the revisionist history, but the actualy history of this country and what the governments role is supposed to be!

Yes - they screwed up bailing out the financial industry with no strings, no oversight and no negotiations for changes in mgmt and policy so it would be completely inept to do it again!

Comment by DJH — December 12, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
And how exactly is government (taxpayer) financial support of a failing business an "American" attribute? I thought government intervention in markets was strictly an un-American idea.

LET THEM FAIL

Comment by Tom — December 12, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
Why did the 3rd part of the Holy Trinity Harry Reid vote no? How come our crusading narscacistic press is not discussing his vote? Do you think Pelosi and Frank could be slightly less of all they could be in this situation?Dont they all have volume controls? Face up to it the rest of America hates the auto industry.50 years of increasingly bad cars ,higher prices, poor workmanship and a take it or leave it arrogance on both sides.They have cried wolf too many times no one believes them OR IN THEM anymore.This is not what the union movement was about.My grand parents were coal crackers in upstate PA.Some were Molly Maguires and died for workers rights and safety in the work place.Others were ostracized by the community who reaped the benefits of their courage but abandoned them for fear of being lumped with them.You have to place this at the UAWs feet.Anything can be negotiated (according to the Dems)They could have agreed to a temporary reduction with resumption of benefits at a later date tied to an economic recovery formula.Better to see them fail as a warning to Big Business and Big Labor that the American consumer has had enough. we are tapped out financially and plumb out of sympathy.You just can't bribe your way out of everything with the politicians because even they eventually have to answer to the electorate when they run out of excuses.(Probably the real reason they always want to disarm us. It makes them nervous to know their constituients can take matters into their own hands when they have had enough.)

Comment by cjl52346 — December 12, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
It's a jungle out there and you definately need a guide:

http://thejungleguide.com/

Comment by Brad — December 12, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
Then you do the math Jason!

"Enough said" moron

69 x 40 hrs is 2760 dollars salary per week. Oh, I'm so sorry. I was off by 200 dollars!

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
the UAW wont make concessions, why do we taxpayers have to pay for their ignorance…its ludicrous…

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
Maintaining a viable automobile industry is important for national security. Everyone agrees we need to end our dependence on foreign oil, but suddenly we're all anxious to become dependent on foreign vehicles too? The Republican Senators who blocked this are jeopardizing our economic and national security. They put foreign interests ahead of American interests. To a lot of folks, that's anti-American.

Comment by Erik — December 12, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
Bailing out the "American" automobile manufacturers is a terrible idea until and unless they stop outsourcing. Over on CNN they are reporting that the *average* outsourced parts and assembly of a GM car is under 45%. On a Toyota, on the other hand, 80% of parts and materials and assembly labor is American! So, sadly, buying a Toyota Camry or Tacoma means you are buying American. Buying anything from GM means you are buying Chinese and Indian and Mexican.

As a nation, we must climb off the free trade bandwagon. It has wrecked our economy and placed our nations security, even it's future existence, in jeopardy. We have permitted, even encouraged U.S. companies to outsource millions of jobs, displaced more than 3 million U.S. engineers and computer programmers with Indian H1-B workers just since 2003.

When we embarked upon the free trade train wreck we were told that we would outsource low paying jobs, keep our technological advantage, and create millions of high paying jobs for American workers. It hasn't quite worked out that way, has it. We've kept the minimum wage jobs and outsourced everything else. The nation that was the factory of democracy in World War II has been reduced to a country with no manufacturing capacity, no new technology (and we're dependent on foreign scientists for the second hand new technologies we do get), all because of free trade. Free trade isn't just nonsense, it is dangerous nonsense. End the H1-B and L-1 visas immediately and you "create" at least three million jobs for American workers that are begging for those jobs! End outsourcing by bringing back trade tariffs and duties, things every one of our "trade partners" use to protect their jobs. Couple those with punitive taxes on investments, *investors*, and businesses that outsource jobs and you would see a flood of jobs returning to this country. Dell, Microsoft, Amazon, wouldn't keep their Indian call centers open for one week if they had to pay $5 or $10 for every service call they handled from the U.S. Apple would move their iPod, iPhone, Mac and other product assembly lines back here PDQ if they had to pay the 100% duty that India charges for importing U.S. made computers. The whole recession/depression is artificial. Congress could end it tomorrow if they took these simple steps. That they do not is both indicative of how corrupt and wedded they all are to business and foreign money, how cynically they use our jobs for bogus foreign policy initiatives, buying "friends", and how bankrupt and unrepresentative our government has become.

Comment by Mike Brooks — December 12, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
Methinks demanding a lucrative $70 an hour career w/benefits for the guy who pushes a button that enables a frame to be bolted to a rocker panel is un-american. Methinks push-broom mustachioed union nitwits are un-american. Methinks unions preventing the free-flow of workers & capital is un-american. Methinks sausage loving, football watching dufaces who refuse to do anything other than 'work at the plant' is un-american.

Comment by Alex in DC — December 12, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
Reid was too busy servicing Barney Frank.

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
When Bof A gets a goverment bailout there are no pay adjustments to its filthy rich bosses. No calls for
adjusting there big bosses perks.

Christ they get bailed out and immediately talk about LAYOFFS OF 35,000 WORKERS and sale out there own until the Hypocrisy became to evident.
One day after they were found hypocrites in there dealings with republic windows.!
In their case there is a parable:

A slave owner was owed money by one of his slaves threatened him with beatings and debtor prison.
The slave cried for forgiveness and was forgiven his debt by his master.
Then as was the case often in those times the slaves owned a slave.
Republic windows staff would fit here.

Due to unpaid debts the forgiven slave threatened the same to his own slave subject.
This slave also cried for forgiveness but the slave who was forgiven by his master would not relent and jailed this slave that he owned.
When the master found out about this hypocrisy he punished his slave angrily.He had been made a fool of!

This natural justice seems all to apparently absent in this financial crisis.

But still with such unpalatable
attitudes we continue this immoral bailout and then on top of that we complain that workers who were not represented by there employers and struck out on their own for justice ARE THE BAD GUYS.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Talk about insult to injury!

Non union people are being set adrift by companies who were bailed at an rapidly increasing rate!
Without any recourse,,,,,,Unlike union members who by virtue of numbers can not be ignored.

I will admit to feeling unfortunate
in not having any representation in my non union job. And being paid awful wages while owners get millions in undeserved bonuses.
But I will not participate in this immoral class warfare! What a transparent gambit by immoral and rapacious "upper class scum"!

Comment by steve jackson — December 12, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
http://www.boycottalabamanow.com

There might be a lot wrong with the autocompanies…and they probably do need restructuring, but this money pales in comparison to the banks…If they would have let the banks fail, then I completely agree, let the auto companies fail. But if you pay for one child's college, and the next child's college is even cheaper, you do not refuse the second child.

http://www.reuters.com/article/InvestmentOutlook09/idUSTRE4BA5CO20081211

Also some senators think that there could be riots…..then there should already be mass riots from the banking bailout!

Comment by Ross — December 12, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
This governor has taking so much automotive lobbist money the past few years….Bribery is unamerican. Get rid of the unions. You shouldn't be paying people 50 bucks an hour to work no an assembly line. No wonder why they are broke….

Comment by Reality — December 12, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
The Big 3 aren't looking for a bailout. It's a LOAN–to be paid back with interest.

If the Big 3 go under, they will be taking millions of jobs with them and this country will never be the same. All we'll be left with are Toyotas and Hondas and other foreign crap, and unfortunately that seems to be fine with a lot of people. But they're forgetting that these aren't American owned companies. They may be here setting up shop, throwing a little work our way, but at the end of the day, most of the profits are going back overseas.

And God forbid we should enter another war where massive amounts of equipment are needed. I would rather have Ford or GM (AMERICAN OWNED COMPANIES) producing the stuff we needed as opposed to letting the Japanese (or any other foreign entity) be privy to our defense plans.

Show a little American pride, people, instead of just rolling over and letting Japan, China, Korea take over our country. Ridiculous!!!

Comment by Renee — December 12, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
Hey, what's wrong with football, Methinks?

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
Oh my God. Polititians voting for the wishes of their constituants. Shocking!

Comment by bigdoglv — December 12, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
OK the bailout, but only if enviro, emission, fleet fuel efficiency, and work restrictions are rolled back to 1968 levels. Maybe '72. Then we could use Diesel fuel and get hundreds of more miles per barrel of crude in an engine that is more failure resistant. BTW, Drudge says that the moon is closer to earth than ever before. Plainly the Earth is in peril because of yet another failed Repub standard.

Comment by Ayn Rand — December 12, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
The only real bailout would be to fire all Union Workers.

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
Why is Michigan even a state anymore?

Just give it to Canada already.

Comment by Ed — December 12, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
I could care less about the UAW tho….they should have passed the bailout with a stipulation inside limiting unions power to uphold contracts when industries are near collapse…

Comment by Ross — December 12, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
I will more then happily work for the union and save the big three!!! Just visit me on the web and donate to my defense fund!!! It's un-american not to!!! http://www.illinois.gov/gov/

Comment by Rod Blagojevich — December 12, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
was Reid weally wiff bawny fwank….

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
#81 - you do realize that the vast majority of financial/mortage meltdown was not the reps, but the dems - specifically that ignorant, no honor having, lying sack of crap Barney Frank, who by the way only wants to bailout the UAW!Freddy and Fanny ring a bell? Guess who asked for oversight - MCCAIN, now guess who said no, let them be - FRANK AND THE DEMS!

Please - get a clue about what it is you speak of before displaying your ignorance for all to see!

Comment by DJH — December 12, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
That's what she said…

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
Sen Dodd today had the balls to say they were almost there except for the UAW to commit to a date to cut back on wages. since the UAW refused to commit, the deal died. Then he said how unfair it is to expect the laborers to have to commit to take wage cuts when costs were rising everywhere. What planet did this guy come from?

These people are about to LOSE their jobs and they cannot consider a wage cut in order to keep working? Yeah, I want the UAW representing me and watching out for my intersts. What a joy it would be to pay them a part of my check each month for their support.

Let it all fall to the ground. A new sleek compay will re-emerge.

Comment by Dan — December 12, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
I've worked in shipbuilding and design 26 years. No one designing/building US nuclear subs and carriers have these outragious benefits similar to the UAW, e.g. +90% income while out of furlough/layoff, a $25-75k buyout plan. Give me a break. US auto workers labor and benefits are 50% higher than Japanese workers. Let them go bust. The rest of us should not have to bail them out. Where was the government help when shipyard after US shipyard closed in the last 20 years and shipbuilding workforce dropped by more than 50%?

Comment by Bill — December 12, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
It would be BETTER for the Auto-Companies to Go Thru At-Least Re-organization Bankruptcy, because it would Force them and the UAW to SEE what they have Wrought. For, DO NOT Only Blame the car companies, for this, because the UAW hold just as much Blame for it getting to this point.
Until the "Bail-out" INCLUDES forcing them to go thru Bankruptcy, it Should Not be Allowed.

Comment by Edav — December 12, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
Yeah, so if the automakers get their bailout who will bail us out? "Us" as in the average American who will have to foot the bill.

Get bent, Governor of Michigan.

Comment by M Vega — December 12, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
Wow, I've never seen a comment by a Democrat that created such a unified reaction. I'd be hard pressed to see anyone stand up Ms Grandholms words. I'll bet it won't be 24 hours before she has to apologize. Please MR. Obama appoint her to some position, any position so we can get rid of her.
I live in Michigan and either way, bail out or not I see very hard times ahead for myself and the country. I tend to agree more with Republicans but all of our Fat Cat politicians and CEO's have helped in creating this mess along with our own greed.

Comment by Ed — December 12, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
All of you geniuses are using this equation as the basis for your argument: Michigan=UAW. The average person in MI realizes that the unions have been greedy and overreaching. Last time I checked, they didn't have a monopoly on greed as the Wall Street bankers seem to have world domination in that department. More on that later. Allow the unions have been greedy it does not mean that Ford, GM, and Chrysler collapsing is good for the country today. Actually it would be catostrophic as most economists from around the world recognize. Would it be wise for the USA to lose the backbone of its manufacturing industry? Maybe you didn't notice that the market opened down 150 points and was plunging until news came out that the White House may help. Trading would probably be shut down by now. The international markets recognize the impact of a big three failure. We gave the banks $700 billion without hearings and that money has done nothing to open up the credit markets. Then the car makers have to come groveling for a measly $14 billion. Guess what? If the banks didn't screw everything up with their greed then the car companies wouldn't be in trouble. People would still be able to finance cars if your wall street darlings hadn't blown apart the ability of the average American to borrow. A few things to remember about Michigan and the carmakes 1) We would not have had the manufacturing capability to win WWII without them 2)The economy would have totally tanked following September 11 had the auto companies not offered 0% financing 3) the unions that you geniuses abhor created the 40 hour work week and the 5 day work week. Maybe you'd prefer that your 11 year old daughter work 60 hours a week sewing shoes together 4) The car companies and the unions were the catalysts for the American middle class. 5) Your non-union wage would be much lower and you probably would not have health insurance through your employer if not for the unions. The Republicans who voted this down mostly did so, not out of true principle, but because they are protecting the foreign auto makers that manufacture in their states. Senator Shelby of Alabama has given incentives totalling in the billions to lure car companies to his state but he won't help the companies that helped build America. Did you know that the car companies sent money and hundreds of vehicles to the states hit by the most recent hurricanes with no strings attached? That is un-American isn't it? To bail other people out who get in trouble. Those states should have planned for the hurricans right? Why should other Americans who don't have hurricanes have to help those who do? I could go on forever but most of you narrow people won't understand the big picture until you can't borrow to get a new Honda for your $4 coffee drinking wife.

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
Ed…give the U.P. to Wisconsin before the Canucks take over.

Comment by Timothy — December 12, 2008 @ 2:03 pm
The UAW has agreed to cuts in compensation to make the big three competitive with the other car companies in the US. All they had to do last night was agree for that cut to happen in the 2009 year. They got to pick the date and an Oboma named "Zar" would get to determin if they were competitive. It was clear by their refusal to pick a date in 2009 for those cuts to take place that they were not dealing in good faith.

Comment by Doug M — December 12, 2008 @ 2:03 pm
cjl52346 - Harry Reid's vote was a standard parliamentary maneuver that allows for the bill to be brought to the floor again, despite it's defeat. I didn't read the rest of your rant, cause if you don't know such basic civics, the rest of what you wrote has little value.

Comment by Erik — December 12, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
You mean the Governor of the People's Republic of Michigan wanted taxpayer money to make up for the loss in business in her state taxed heavily?

I bought a Toyota Tundra three days ago after driving a Ford F-150. No comparison.

Comment by L Cary — December 12, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
Time for Mitt to move back to Michigan and run for Gov. in 2010.

Comment by justMe — December 12, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Gov Granholm The Idiot is the biggest folly we've had in the State of Michigan in Decades. Even if there wasn't trouble with the Automakers she has run this State in the Hole so far you can't see daylight. Not that long ago we had budget cuts and they certainly could have been more than what they were. So all of a sudden we have a 300Mil surplus that was going to be saved for the coming budget, that was a joke, it didn't take her long to BLOW THAT MONEY, pissed it away on pet projects. Why don't we just replace all these elected officials with Pet Monkeys, we'd get as much accomplished and all we'd have to do is feed them bananas. Oh yeah…her husband has prospered quite well since she took office. She also seems to spend more time Abroad than she does in Lansing.

Comment by Hoots — December 12, 2008 @ 2:06 pm
she's Canadian anyway…..

Comment by DLo — December 12, 2008 @ 2:06 pm
General Motors bought tens of thousands of Dadson/Nissan pickup trucks for the U.S. Government contract just so Ford or Dodge couldn't get it. Thats why U.S.Department of the Interior and many other angencys were driving around in Jap trucks. I beleve that is un-American! If Dodge had gotten the contract we may not have had to bail them out the first time.

Comment by ken johnson — December 12, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
The height of hypocrisy: give everything and anything to the BANKS & FINANCIAL institutions and give the auto companies a totally hard time for only LOANS of a much lower amount.

The banks are the most-mismanaged business around. it's all bull!

Comment by Paulson — December 12, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
If there were NO Unions, we wouldn't have this problem.

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
Dave, nice try the product sucks.

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
Hey Tim, I would but then you may charge a toll to go over the bridge to Wisconsin. Nice to see a sense of humor in all this turmoil.

Comment by Ed — December 12, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
The governor is a moron. I suppose she would have bailed out the buggy whip companies as well!

Comment by Scott — December 12, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
We have given away this country to the Japanese and Chinese. When all of you complainers about Michigan lose your jobs because of the tsunami effect this is going to have, then maybe you'll think again!

Comment by Eloise — December 12, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
If you Dems think this is a good idea, you don't know anything about business and you all should stay sucking at the govt trough, but if you want to solve this problem there needs to be very hard decisions made. The Big 3 do pay $70+ per hour considering the retired people which you must do to make a proper comparison, the Big 3 pay it, it needs has to be counted. The foreign car makers in this country do pay $40+ per hour using the same method. In a midsize sedan from Toyota, they are being built for $2,000 less or what is happening is that Toyota is putting $2,000 more in their car than the Big 3 can and sell it for the same price. The UAW needs to make the hard decissions, if not and they think a bailout is going to save them, they are dead wrong, at best they will delay the problem 6 months. The steel industry should be a good example of what is going to happen to the car industry. The steel went out because of the Steel Workers union and our companies not beable to compete. The auto makers will go down because of the UAW has put them the same position. This is sad to see, when the politicians are bought by the unions this is what you get, a broken industry and people saying you are unamerican to not go along with this misguided and industry killing idea. The Big 3 need to go bankrupt and rewrite the union contracts, any thing less will be a waste of time and money…period!

Comment by Ron — December 12, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
Most of these comments make me proud to be an American. I'm happy to hear socialism hasn't won yet.

I wish I didn't get my pay cut…but I did and i'm not upset about it. Because in the end, I have a job for now and when the conditions get better, I'll be off looking for a better paying job. Not forcing my employer to pay me that is not in the realm of reality.

Comment by Johnny on the Rant — December 12, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
The Tundra is far superior to that old tired F150

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
HIIIIIiiiiiii!!! I'm wearing my "GO Union!" Chaps! Anyone wanna see? I'll be under…uhm, at Mister Reids desk! Byyyyy!

Comment by barney franklin — December 12, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
Note: Romney changed his tune on this topic as he has on so many others. During the primaries, he was willing to bail out the Big 3. But now, he says he doesn't. He is a loser as well.

Comment by Scott — December 12, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
Everyone here keeps complaining about the banks and Wall Street bailout and holds that up as an excuse to give (or not give) the automobile companies a bailout, too. The utter ruthless swine at these banks and on Wall Street are criminals. They are, moreover, international criminals. Their schemes and fraud brought down the economies of the entire world. The world knows that and we seem to keep forgetting it! This worldwide depression is an American export. Something NOT being reported in the American press are calls for international investigations and trials of these swine, similar to the Nuremberg trials that punished Nazi war criminals after World War II. I, for one, think this is a very good idea. Imagine an international trial where these swine don't own the government and courts, where they will be tried and imprisoned in some Chinese hellhole, rather than a country club, or executed. They have been responsible for more human suffering, more economic damage than any event since Hitler's armies overran Europe and Africa and I think it makes perfectly good sense to place these criminals in the hands of the Chinese, Icelanders, Norwegians, Indians, people all over the world they have harmed. That would be real justice… and it would expose a lot of the doing of our "representative" who worked with and abetted these criminals, too, allow us to go after their offshore accounts and strip them of every penny of their ill gotten gains.

Comment by Mike Brooks — December 12, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
when the big 3 finally decide to bust up the UAW and not let the labor lords strangle them to death, then they will be on the road to recovery. But bailing them out is like asking your friends for money to pay the bully! At some point, your friends are going to quit giving it to you, and you're going to face the music.

When these American companies learn how to compete with the rest of the world, they will start being profitable. It's just odd that we want foreign oil (We don't want to drill in Alaska), but we don't want foreign cars! GEEZ!!

Comment by David — December 12, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
MS. GRANHOLM WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR MICHIGAN… NOTHING… YOU SHOULD BE IMPEACHED… SHAME ON YOU… YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING TO SAVE THE CAR COMPANY'S… OR ANYONE ELSE IN MICHIGAN FOR THAT MATTER… YOU ARE THE WORST GOVERNOR WE HAVE EVER HAD IN THIS STATE… PLEASE GO TO WASHINGTON IF HUSSEIN OBAMA OFFERS YOU A JOB… THAT WOULD BE THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR MICHIGAN IS GET OUT

Comment by linda — December 12, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
<>

Did Obama voted "Present" again?

Comment by stary kozel — December 12, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
Someone ought to tell Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm and every other senator that voted for the bail out that only through bankrupcy will the big 3 be able to tear up the union contracts that are keeping them from succeeding. The last two things the big three need are continued UAW unions demanding too much and a govenment car czar who doesn't know !@#$ about cars. Last I checked, everything the government currently runs in is the red (post office, SS, federal, location, state governments, etc). what makes them think they know how to run/provide oversight on car manufacturing. There should be a new law, every elected official must have working in the private sector and understand finance and every lawyer in an elected office be fired.

Comment by Glenn — December 12, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
Shake off the f UAW, otherwise they'll be back for more before we know it.

Comment by Mike B — December 12, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
DAVE They can compete by getting rid of Union Workers. Unions should be unconstitional. A body of people should not be allowed to dictate someone elses business.

Comment by jaxson — December 12, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Keep Mitt {the plastic banana} where he is

Comment by dennis — December 12, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
Blame the unions, not the government. Unions have morphed from representing the American way to representing the socialist way. They beat a sweet deal for the workers out of the auto companies, they should have known it wouldn't last, now they want to have their cake and eat it too. Why should some guy who operates an impact wrench make $80,000 a year? Japanese auto workers don't make that much and they make a better product. America has become an entitlement state and that is what is un-American.

Comment by Grumpy — December 12, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
What's unAmerican is the UAW and their demands over the past 20 years that have held Americans hostage to their demands to the point that now GM and Chrysler and Ford can't compete against other auto companies. THAT's what's UnAmerican. That's communism when the unions are in the driver's seat and management has to bow to their demands. That's also what blew the deal up last night. The UAW said no to any reduction in pay. That's what the problem is.

Comment by Richard Terrell — December 12, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
Aren't Union workers the equivolent of McDonald's employees?

Comment by Capt Houreas — December 12, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
jaxson they also should not be able to help it either

Comment by dennis — December 12, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
Well Steve DC, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 171,000 miles. That isn't bad? I have an Infiniti also. I am not blind, most people are missing the real implications of what will happen if these companies close. The US auto makers have made some garbage in the past, no argument here. But that line of reasoning does not mean that a short term loan to help save them isn't in the best interest of the country.

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
"It is unacceptable for this un-American, frankly, behavior of these U.S. senators to cause this country to go from a recession into a depression,"

CAUSE

That word is important.

1. That failing to bail out auto makers will create a depression from a recession is a highly speculative assertion.

2. If it were to work out that way, why should the blame fall upon the Congress and not the terrifically flawed business model of the Big 3/Organized Labor coalition? It leads me to wonder why Michigan is being managed by an executive with no firm grasp on cause and effect. Even if inaction on the part of the Senate did not prevent a depression, the real causes lie far back in the chain of events. Prescribing Tylenol instead of chemotherapy doesn't CAUSE cancer.

3. Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution is Congress required or permitted to finance (via loans, grants or any other vehicle) private industry. While this holds true, I believe, in the case of the current nationalization of our banking and finance industries, precedent doesn't make it any more legitimate for Detroit to get a seat at the buffet. It is these captains of industry and the legislators who permit their shameless theft of tax dollars who are, frankly, un-American…or at least un-Constitutional.

Comment by kyle — December 12, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
Having the American Tax Payer fund the corrupt UAW union's suicidal drive toward bancrupting the big-3, is what's Un American. Michigan is one Effed up run State…top to bottom.

Comment by Mark D. — December 12, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
Being corrupt is un-American. Governor Granholm is complicit in corruption. When it's possible to be ethical, Jennifer Granholm submits to pressure from corrupt corporations, like Norfolk Southern. Governor Granholm is a maggot. Yes governor, that's me (Scott Hite) calling you a maggot.

Comment by Scott Hite — December 12, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
If you want welfare, vote Democrat!

Comment by Freed — December 12, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
JAXSON, I don't like the union either but being spiteful toward them is only going to harm the country and world in very short order. You have to stabilize the patient first and then get things fixed. BTW, the UAW's wages are nearly inline with the foreign automakers. They average, excluding benefits, three dollars more per hour.

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 2:18 pm
Many non-autoworker Americans are losing their jobs and can't think about buying one of the Detroit gas-guzzling new cars, let alone being able to afford a new car without a paycheck. The Big Three are mired in new plant construction start-ups in other countries like Mexico, China, Russia, Vietnam - why help fund the Big Three continue to send their US jobs to foreign factories faster? Chrysler has plenty of cash until Daimler purchased and pillaged them. The Big Three have money to continue to build foreign plants. Maybe I would have replaced my 12-year old car this year, but I'm trying to sign up for unemployment compensation and although the state added new phone lines, still haven't gotten thru in several days. Although I'm being laid off, there is still a job, it's just my job is moving to India for lower cost pay and so my company can count the revenues as generated from India.

Comment by Tonia — December 12, 2008 @ 2:18 pm
Todd Bandrowsky said that "Republicans in the South seem to be taking a lot of marching orders from their new found Chinese buddies." Not sure where he got that particular line of reasoning, but we in the south are not afraid of free trade. We can compete globally. We are tired of bailing out liberal policies in the rest of the nation. Funny how we can build auto plants in Texas and other right to work states that actually make money and vehicles that people want to buy, but then are told to bail out dumb policies in the rest of the country that cost jobs. GM, Michigan and the UAW made their collective bed (shoddy though the workmanship is) now they need to figure out how to fix it or lay in it. Texans will continue to create jobs whatever the liberals across the rest of the country do. BTW, we don't want to bail out California and their idiotic policies either.
Ever wonder why Michigan and other liberal states are losing population and jobs and their congressional delegation shrinks in reapportionment every 10 years while Texas and the rest of the south grow? It is not just the bad winters. Policy matters.

Comment by Scott — December 12, 2008 @ 2:19 pm
If we are really lucky, Detroit may beocome a ghost town. The UAw deserves only the contempt of REAL Americans….but not one dime in taxpayer money.

Maybe McDonald's is hiring.

Comment by Walter — December 12, 2008 @ 2:19 pm
does the good leftist gov. think it's un-american to take away the people's right to bear arms. i believe that's in the constitution!!! liberals; phucking frauds!!

Comment by phil — December 12, 2008 @ 2:19 pm
break the union! these companies will not be competitive EVER unless the get that union monkey off their backs!

Comment by Robert NYC — December 12, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
Ms Granholm whats un-american?
foriegn car makers building in the usa are profitable, why should the taxes on their
profits go to bailout their failing competition?
let the big 3 die, the sooner the better and lets move on…
btw Ms Granholm is a Canadian born, Berkley educated socialist

Comment by bobby phischer — December 12, 2008 @ 2:22 pm
As for me, I will not be buying a bailout mobile any time in the future. Can someone tell me why Cerberus Capital who owns Chrysler is not willing to put up any more of their own funds to keep their investment afloat? They are not broke and they are not public either.

Comment by Ken E — December 12, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
do not give them 1 dime, UAW cause the mess let them suffer.
my rent's due can you give me a year's worth of
payments.
Obuma want's this passed because he maked promises he can't keep.

BofA bought ML. now there letting 35,000 go.
did we not give them money.
this S*** needs to stop.

Comment by dave — December 12, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Funny that a Canadian is talking about things being "Un-American".

Comment by Brian — December 12, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
if i were a democrat with a conscience i'd put a bullet in my head. but, you got to have a conscience. if they did how could anyone kill a seven or eight month old baby. it helps them to say, abortion. can you say, "abortion"!? i know you can.

Comment by phil — December 12, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
DAVE: It doesn't matter what UAW memebers average compared to foreign auto workers…doesn't matter. The point being every week these Automakers are having to fork out over a Billion dollars in salary alone to workers that otherwise would be making minimum wage! You can't tell me that it is OK for GroupA to tell GroupB how to run their business. Unions should be unconstitutional and should be taken up in a courtroom. Yes, I am spiteful….let's call it downright p!ssed!

Comment by Capt Houreas — December 12, 2008 @ 2:26 pm
Unamerican to bail out the union workers who don't want to give concessions to get inline with other workers? Ha, this stupid governor is a Democrat who depends on these selfish smucks to get reelected. Of course, it goes without saying that the management of the Big 3 have been incompetent for along time and have been overpaid for years. They need to be replaced with people with vision!

Comment by El gato — December 12, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
Smart comment WALTER. Everyone in Michigan and Detroit is a union member. Actually, you can't even cross the state line without showing your union card. The show will one day be on the other foot and us uncompetitive rust belt states will return the favor. By the way all you wonderful southern states, how is the fresh water supply holding up? Don't worry, natural resources are aplenty in this outdated state surrounded by the lakes. Guess what else? You'll never touch it.

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
The House Un-American Activities Committee starts again - only this time it's to blacklist those who aren't Socialists.

GM lost $2billion earlier this year due to union strikes is what helped cause their woes and the union's refual to negotiate for the bailout is what prevented it from happening.

Of course, Granholm goes neg on the republican senators, ignoring it could have passed w/just dems.

Comment by Minerva — December 12, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
I believe it was Barney Frank and other democrats who refused to look at the realities of the home loan industry and made bad decisions which led to the Fannie Mae mess. This is true. This led to the current credit problem as well as the inability for companies to borrow cash. Weak companies such as the auto industry are now in worse trouble than they were before. One must save the banking industry to help all companies. This is about banking. Of course, those bad decisions have now made it about the auto industry. The idea that this democrat idiot has the nerve to blame republicans for not bailing the auto industry out is insane. Democrats created the problem, have zero accountability, and Republicans are just trying to make sure the Democrats don't undo America any further. Here's an idea you democratic fools, what happens when the auto companies spend all the money and still go under? Where are we then? They will too. Just get banking back in line. Those auto companies will figure it out for themselves and rebuild. Maybe they'll vote Republican next time around.

Comment by David — December 12, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
Let Detroit burn. I guarentee you no one will care or notice.

Comment by Alpha One — December 12, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
CAPT Houreas: You are correct, it is a shame to spend a billion dollars paying people who work hard to build a durable item. The money is much better spent bailing out Wall Street.

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
Un-American, congratulations you ignorant sl*t. What is Un-American is the way the democrats have run the manufacturing industry into the ground with your socialist policies. Please don't tell me what is Un-American. By the way "Socialism was a Spectacular Failure".

Comment by Rich — December 12, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
The union spent almost a billion dollars getting democrats elected. They should have used that money to retrain their workers for the year 2008, not 1956 on the Waterfront. When are corrupt union officials going to take pay cuts? When are they going to stop taking money from workers? When are unions going to deal with the fact that the foreign automakers have used technology to become more efficient. It takes 3 UAW workers to do the job that one Toyota Worker can do. Giving money to the UAW is like giving money to Enron to write the Energy Bill. UAW are a bunch of corrupt lobbyist. The American people did not vote to have the UAW in on negotiations.

100,000 workers lost their jobs in the credit market collapse. IT is time for the UAW to wake up and stop acting childish.

The public is not supportive of the union thugs demanding taxpayer money for their condos in Florida.

Comment by Karen — December 12, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
No, anyone not voting for the bailout is a patriotic American capitalist that understands you don't throw good money after bad. You also don't raise taxes as you did, Gov, to end a state recession.
Gov, your socialist policies are another reason not one penny should enter your state from the rest of America.
You are an embarrasment to the American way, and if the unions and others in your state keep voting socialist, they deserve the results.
Socialism has never worked, never will.
Raise taxes again, that will help, but keep your hands off our money, you and your corrupt UAW thugs.
Ron Reale
realetybytes@yahoo.com
realetybytes.townhall.com

Comment by Ron Reale — December 12, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
No dear. Socialism is un-American. Taking hard-earned money from taxpayers and giving it to incompetent corporations is un-American. Bailouts are un-American.

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 2:30 pm
Better have a large emergency savings, people. Oh, and by the way, Detroit makes some crappy vehicles. Too bad only the blindly patriotic will be buying them.

Comment by ranch111 — December 12, 2008 @ 2:30 pm
It's private industries that run to the government for financial bailouts that are un-american not a Senate which votes against them. The UAW killed GM not the american people or their representatives.
And if you're unhappy about foreign products manufactured at slave wages hitting American soil, STOP BUYING THEM.

Comment by Chris — December 12, 2008 @ 2:30 pm
How much money is Michigan putting into the bailout?

Comment by Jim — December 12, 2008 @ 2:30 pm
Michigan SUCKS. The gov is an idiot.

Comment by Bill — December 12, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
Hey Gov, Get a grip.

Comment by Okinawa — December 12, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
Please! Please! Please get a bailout for Rick Hendrick dealerships. I own 50+ dealerships here in the US and what will happen to my Nascar Race Team without a bailout. Poor Jimmy Johnson and Jeffy Gordon will have to go back to Go-Carts. Oops! Duh i also own a bunch of Honda dealerships too. Gee maybe jimmy and Jeffy wouldn't mind driving Hondas at the Charlotte Race in 2009! Never mind…Honda will save me!

Comment by Rick Hendrick (Chevy Dealer) — December 12, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
"It's un-American," says the Canadian-born governor of one of the most dysfunctional states in the country. That's wonderful.

Comment by Brett — December 12, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
Jenny's an idiot. Obviously she has damaged the Michigan economy. Ask ANY of my fellow small business owners. If not bailing out the auto industry is un-American, what does her total failure as a governor make her? The only person who profited under her tenure was her husband.

Also, UAW is not as stupid as they seem. They dug in their heels on pay reductions and it looks like the President or the Fed is going to bail them out, even if Congress doesn't. If I were a UAW member, I would be happy. Everyone loses in this deal except the union.

Comment by the Buzzer — December 12, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
You know what else is unamerican? Jennifer Granholm.

Comment by Dark — December 12, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
Govenor, your state has some really nice, big, deep lakes. What say you take a walk on one of the beautiful piers? And make it a nice, long walk! I am sure the wonderful citizens of Michigan would be much better off.

Comment by American — December 12, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
Perhaps Jennifer Granholm wasn't aware that the GOP wasn't part of the negations. Perhaps if we would have included them they wouldn't have voted against the bailout.

Once again we cry the sky is falling and blame the GOP for our party haven't not done their jobs.

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
Seems the American people have spoken. Live with it Gov.! I'm unemployed and still realize the UAW is a bad investment.

Comment by R2R — December 12, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
scott-great comment. the problem starts because liberals think that they're smarter than they really are. and, they're like five year olds. you give them something to do, a project, fifteen minutes later they're either not done, can't figure out how to and don't finish. and the rest of the liberals don't give a schitt and are too lazy to help. "as long as someone else is doing it" is the democrats motto. barack obama is as un-american as one can get and the dumb s.o.b's still voted for him. now, i ask you, how phucking moronic is that!

Comment by phil — December 12, 2008 @ 2:33 pm
Get rid of the UAW and I'd buy stock.

Comment by R2R — December 12, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
Un-American? Paying barely skilled labor $150,000 bucks a year to make garbage vehicles is Un-American. GM, Ford and Chrysler can't die soon enough. Michigan auto workers: Sorry, party's over. Michigan governor: Fix your anti-business policies and stop blaming the rest of the country for your home-grown tragedy. America (minus Michigan) is not to blame. The entitlement mentality of American auto makers (+ unions) are. Suck it up…move on.

Signed,

Taxpayer

Comment by Jon — December 12, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
Looks like I will be trading my Ford in for a brand new Toyota.
Burn in hell UAW, lazy bastards.
Supporting the right to work, is supporting freedom.

Comment by FreedomToChoose — December 12, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
She is obviously in the pockets of the unions. Stupid bimbo.

Comment by Taijiguy — December 12, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
I'm sick and tired of the whining about the banks and why they got bailed out and not the auto industry. Quite frankly it's real simple, we need a strong banking system, and a strong central banking system, without them, there is no business. We can live without Detroit, another mfg will simply pick up the slack. Detroit's problems are self inflicted - they've been on-life support for 10+ years already. Poor products, poor planning, poor managements, lack of vision, and inefficient union contracts killed them. Sorry to say, but your 15 minutes is up. Funny, nearly all the blue states are broke - can you name the common denominators.

Comment by Roberto — December 12, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
I am not UN-American � you, you, � idiot!

I - we US taxpayers owe you, Michigan, and the auto workers nothing except freedom: life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness. I read nothing in our Constitution that says we have to provide our hard earned & limited income to bail out incompetent auto companies and greedy, overpaid auto workers! So, Michigan Governor, please take a long walk on a short pier. And if you survive that I expect an apology from you NOW!

Comment by RonK — December 12, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Nancy Pelosi opened her big yap and went this route on the last bailout calling Republicans "unpatriotic" and all it did was solidify the opposition. Never send a liberal woman to do a mans job.

Comment by uawblows — December 12, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
Compete or Die. That's the AMERICAN WAY, not give me a freaking handout. (although that's becoming the way). Handouts? Go run your company in another country.. no wait, your electronics are from ASIAN COUNTRIES, some of your AMERICAN cars are made in MEXICO or CANADA. Let them bail you out. If then can't hold their own in the marketplace, let them go under and let someone else take their place…

Comment by Grumpyoldb — December 12, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
I heard that Saturn does not hire Union workers. Good for them.

Comment by Capt Houreas — December 12, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
This woman is a Nut and one heck of a lousy Govenor. I personally know people leaving Michigan directly because her policies. There's no problem building Cars in America, there definitely is a problem building Cars in the People's Republic of Michigan.

Comment by JohnnyG — December 12, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
This is nuts. The UAW thugs will cause the demise of the automotive industry. They have held hostage the success of their own companies. Instead of following the example of United Airlines whose employees ALL worked to turn around that company, the UAW would rather ultimately sacrifice their jobs permanently due to their insane greed for power. Why should I the taxpayer have to pay for THEIR mistakes? I hate GM cars, they are a piece of junk.

Comment by diane — December 12, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
What is Un-American is the CEO's, Board of Directors and the heads of the UAW that cannot keep their companies from going under because they cannot think of a good product and make it sell here and overseas. These guys are the ones that are Un-American, is thinking our government and the American people are their own personal piggy bank. Where is my billion dollar bailout?

Comment by cort — December 12, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
As a Michigan resident and a republican business owner this is the first time that I actualy agreed with our govenor.Driving a foreign car is un american.

Comment by Mike — December 12, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
Let's fact it. The auto companies need to be more competitive and the ONLY way this is going to happen is if we level the playing field. Foreign companys (Toyota, Honda, and others) do not support Unions yet those car makers sell cars by the train load — to Americans. Suck it up! The car companies must go into Chapter 11 and then they will come up with business model that is not a throw back to the Socialist days of the 1920s and 1930s. Every American industry in the last 20the century took a beating from foreign competion. From lumber to steel we saw major declines that I believe could have been migitatied or perhaps prevented. We as a nation must get our priorities straight — otherwise the Pacific Rim countires and especially China will take over and kick our A** I really ***hate*** the prospect of living in a second world country.

Comment by Dan — December 12, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
That's right, wave that damn flag. Whose flag were you waving when the idiot auto executives and UAW thugs ran this so-called indispensable industry into the ground? Where were all the flag waving union leaders last night when it was their turn to say that the most important thing this country needs right now is a profitable auto industry. This isn't about patriotism. It's about stupidity. And the dummies of the moment are the workers who said last night that they would rather see it sink than offer anything else.

Comment by mrdon — December 12, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
Mike: As a Michigan resident and a republican business owner this is the first time that I actualy agreed with our govenor.Driving a foreign car is un american.

Mike, please hold hands with the noce govenor as you BOTH take the walk off the pier. Thank you.

Comment by American — December 12, 2008 @ 2:41 pm
PS…No one's buying your vehicles anyway. The "american" economy is going to be fine without 3 defunct auto-makers. Michigan won't, but that's the natural result of policies driven by social concerns rather than economic common sense. The assertion that the failure of the "big three" is going to have a cascading effect on an economy is absurd, especially since most of us drive other (better) brands of vehicles.

Comment by Jon — December 12, 2008 @ 2:41 pm
Congrats to the Senate Republicans (minus the RINOs) who finally grew the cajones to say NO to a bailout of Michigan and the unions. (Shame you couldn't find the nerve a few months back.)

So the big three go bankrupt… BIG DEAL! They'll finally be unleashed from the socialist contracts forced on them by the UAW. The auto industry isn't in trouble overall, just the northern factories. The generally non-union foreign manufacturers here in the US, and big three plants in the south, are doing OK.

If one or more goes under, that'll be a shame, but it won't be the end of the world, as most of the lines will be bought up by leaner companies. Auto lines get bought up all the time (there's no Willys company making Jeeps anymore, but the Jeeps are still out there.)

The problem is that companies paying $100 an hour for moderately-skilled assembly-line workers who bring in $90 of value is unsustainable. Absolutely Detroit can make cars as good as any foreign competitor, but when they have to add $4000 to the price of every car just to cover labor costs, a lot of people will just buy a Camry instead.

Let the bankruptcies come, let the unions go bust, and let a new sensible era begin.

Comment by p3orion — December 12, 2008 @ 2:42 pm
Based on the majority of these comments I gather that Governor Granholm's comments were not appreciated nor is she well respected.

That's good! But, why do we keep electing these types of officials????

Comment by Sheila — December 12, 2008 @ 2:42 pm
Mike, you are an idiot…I would have loved to have driven my Ford Windstar but the transmission crapped out at 96K, I would have loved to have driven my Durango, it crapped out at 82K…I did get to drive my honda over 200K and my camry 185k and sold them when they still ran…I would love to drive american, but I cant, they quit running you boob

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
Well, it seems a few thousand members of the UAW have some thinkin' to do. Someone in the union should call for a vote. The world will be more than watching with baited breath. Duh. Who has the stones to call a vote of the membership and deliver the decision to the doorstep of whomever is interested.

A vote to accept the Senate demand to reduce wages and benefits to those, adjusted for COL, of those with similar jobs in the south, to save the jobs and livelihood of our fellow americans for at least a few more months, or at least until people are able to get the jobs and the loans to buy what can be pretty good cars we build that are well designed.

a vote to reject any compromise as being illegal, against public policy, and whatever wages and benefits are in our possession will not be given up for the benefit of any stake holder in the auto manufacturing business.

Interesting problem for them. But, let them vote it. Why don't they authorize a temporary reduction to the minimum, an amount that will be keyed to present unit sales figures and increases will follow the sales
increase…or decrease. Of course that depends on the quality of the car so earn the money by building a glitch free car.

Comment by Robert Holland — December 12, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
calling an elected representative un-american because you disagree with their vote is in itself un-american.

Comment by Paul Patersin — December 12, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
What is REALLY un-American is asking American consumers to buy product containg $74./hour labor when the market going rate for labor is under $40. "Organized" labor is one of many factors that are putting this country into the tank. The problem is that the Democrat party can't get labor and Socialism out of it's a-hole

Comment by Jerry in Tampa — December 12, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
Ah, good ole Granholm….Granholm and the UAW, makes me so proud to live in this once great state…. God is she dense. Isn't she on Obamas Economic team??!! PS…. Can't wait to support a car maker that supports right to work states with my purchase next month.

Comment by BlowMeUAW — December 12, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
We wanted to continue our TWO DECADE Cadillac purchases.

However, Cadillac�s seat belts cut into the neck of my 6�5 husband and me (5� 3�) for FIVE years, without resolution!

Moreover, we had to spend $1000.00 annually for maintenances on the crappy front drive breaks of the Seville — I drive 500 miles annually!!!!

Why should the tax payers of the following states Bail Out the United Auto Workers and GM? Screw That!!!!!

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas
California Colorado Connecticut Delaware
Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho
Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas
Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland
Massachusetts Minnesota Mississippi
Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada
New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York
North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma
Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina
South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah
Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia
Wisconsin

Screw U General Motors and the Union you rode in on!!!!

Mercedes S- Class.

You Stink to Hell!!!!!

Comment by BUMPY RIDE — December 12, 2008 @ 2:44 pm
BTW, if the government is going to insist the GM management be fired for running the business down, shouldn't all the governors begging for help be fired for ineptitude also?…and the congress that could not run its own cafeteria without losing millions?
Whats Un-American is forcing Americans to pay for illegal immigrant medical care until hospitals collapse, schooling until the school system collapses.
The big lie is that all the workers will be unemployed. BS!
Under a bankruptcy reorganization, the company keeps running, but gets cleaned up. After they get rid of the uaw thugs, I bet investors will come in and start again, like when the airlines reorganize.
Personally, I could care less if they lose their jobs. I have had to relocate due to business closings. They caused the problems with their strikes for ridiculous benefits, (medical for their PETS!), so screw 'em. If the foreign cares are the only ones left standing, so be it.
And don't forget, Governor, whatever happens, raise the taxes, that will solve your problems. People will flock to your state with their business to help you out, so raise them again and again, your smarter then us, you'll solve the problem.
Ron Reale
realetybytes@yahoo.com
realetybytes.townhall.com

Comment by Ron Reale — December 12, 2008 @ 2:44 pm
UAW=unqualified,apathetic, whiners

Comment by BlowMeUAW — December 12, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
Paul, Patersin…. you're an idiot. Oops! Sorry, that was un-american wasn't it?

Comment by American — December 12, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
This from Grandholm, the governor with the approval rating second only to Hot Rod Blago.

Sorry Jen, but a handout to the auto industry is really a handout to the UAW, the same organization that got GM and Ford in this mess in the first place. They're Unamerican.

Comment by andy — December 12, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
What is American? welfare or rewarding failure? Where was Michigan Governor when these companies and unions negotiating unbelievable contracts. How come foreign companies build cars in US and make money? You cant make money when you sell a car for less than what you spend to make it in the first place. where does it stop? 14 billion is just till O'bama gets in the office and more and more. Stop this insane politics of bailing out people for votes. Let them go bankrupt and learn a lesson on how to do business.

Comment by Patrick — December 12, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
Mike wrote

"Enjoy your cheese, because when the unemployment rate goes from 6.6% to 16.6% with the loss of over 3 million jobs in the OEM, and the supplier base, and car parts grow more scarce, you will find another sobering perspective."

Mike, you are an idiot. You cannot have car parts grow scarce and the people that make them out of work. If they are scarce then there is a demand. Where there is demand there will be companies fighting to fill it.

Stop your fear mongering. None of these companies are going anywhere. If they are not "bailed out" they will restructure under bankruptcy laws. They are not going anywhere.

What you are afraid of is the unions getting busted up. And they will. Time to join the rest of the workers accross America who have to do a job for a realistic wage.

Comment by A Tax Payer — December 12, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
The auto industry's problems will not be solved until the union is brought back to reality.

Comment by SirGlubb — December 12, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
Out of work?
Hungry?
Eat your union card!!!

Comment by Douglas — December 12, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
Last time I checked, the bimbo governor's high taxes and love fest with the union are un American. If there were no UAW or ridiculous government overregulation none of this would be happening. Then again, liberals hate the truth. Learn more at http://www.goldenpansy.com where Marxist political correctness is put in its place.

Comment by Christopher Van — December 12, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
It is Un-American to expect handouts. This country was built on a strong work ethic. I am presently working for a little less than 50% of my previous salary. There are many more just like me. I opposed the TARP and I very strongly oppose the auto bailout. This Govenor should be ashamed.

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
This guy is out of his mind. Voting against the bailout is about the most "American" thing anybody could do. Voting for the bailout is the first step towards the implementation of a Marxist nation, but perhaps that's what this governor wants. If anything is "Un-American" it's a government takeover of industry.

Comment by rplat — December 12, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
Maybe if the CEO's of all these large companies would quit taking millions in salaries and bonuses and pay the employees a reasonable wage ($40 - %50 and hour is over the top) they would not be in this mess. What happened as soon as AIG got their billions in bailouts…all the greedy big shots at the top of the ladder awarded themselves a $4 million dollar bonus each! People who were planning on retiring can't now because the government gave their retirement funds to the big corporations so the fat cats can continue living high on the hog and to hell with the every day working stiff!

Bite me!

Comment by Carol — December 12, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
Sorry, Jenny,

But you haven't cared a whit about traditional private enterprise and MI's economy except to provide tax revenues for your failed "progressive" programs. There's a reason we here have gone through many years of recession while the rest of the country prospered until the past quarter. If AFL-CIO doesn't price their labor competitively to other automakers as we go forward, any deal now only delays the inevitable epitaph. Senate, don't cave until everyone agrees to accept some discomfort along the way. This is only an issue with Jenny, Do-Nothing Debbie, and an at-times well meaning Mr. Levin because they are in MI labor's back pocket.

Comment by WG — December 12, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
when the auto makers have been losing money every year, it's up to them to run their business profitably.

and there's no reason they can't, other than unions, mismanagement, and govt regulation.

so it's ridiculous for the government to seemingly nationalize an auto company by propping it up against others who have run their business properly.

demand for cars will not disappear. it will move to other manufacturers. and so will the jobs, after some short term pain.

i am insulted that she thinks patriotism = welfare, and am deeply saddened that so many americans don't know any better.

Comment by daveg — December 12, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
Jen's right, we gotta bailout the unions .. I mean auto industry. I wish I could do something to help but it's pretty cramped in this cell. Hey, could anyone bail me out too?

Comment by Kwame Kilpatrick — December 12, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
I would say to pay for the bail out is unAmerican!

Comment by ASH — December 12, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
Michigan is a beautiful state overrun by greedy Dems in all 3 branches. Nice model for the federal gov't, right?

Comment by Deputy Dawg — December 12, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
Agreed. Mike, once you buy foreign, you never buy Michigan again. Freedom is American, and more Americans choose foreign cars. I will NEVER buy an American car. I would rather ride a bicycle.

Comment by Jon — December 12, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
Not letting this a**hat steal my money is "unAmerican"? No paying more takes is "unpatriotic"? Ok.

If those are the new standards for calling someone unAmerican and unpatriotic I'll go ahead and say this: The Democrats collusion in the last eight years with Al Quada in helping them wage the psychological aspect of the Iraqi war was unpatriotic, unAmerican and treasonous.

Go ahead and tell me I can't call liberals unpatriotic for support Islamic terrorists in the wake of this.

Comment by Roark — December 12, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
Bring back the K-car and the Montego, thats the ticket

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
Mike is a UAW rep.

Comment by American — December 12, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
Every time a politican doesn't get there way it becomes Un-American or we are siding with the terrorists. If they didn't have many of their members sitting in rooms watching TV perhaps the auto makers wouldn't need a bailout. Not many people buy American cars nowadays. I wonder why?

Comment by Steve Ignorant — December 12, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
Michigan is a beautiful state overrun by greedy Dem's in all 3 branches. Nice model for the federal govt, right?

Comment by Deputy Dawg — December 12, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
I am very proud of the Republicans in the Senate, finally taking a principled stand on a major issue. Un-American? Ridiculous. Perhaps Governor Granholm would like to explain to me how the government forcibly taking my tax money and giving it to the failed businesses and corrupt unions in her state is in line with American ideals.

Comment by Emmett — December 12, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
Mike, please log off…of course you never go back to detroit for a car after buying an american car…they are superior…in 1991 you could buy a Honda Accord DX for about 13.5K, you could put over 200K on it and sell it 10 years later for 4K…thats why people dont go back to detroit you idiot…let me see you sell a K-car or the awesome mini Lincoln they used to sell, they are worthless…

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
sorry, i meant foreign car

Comment by stevedc — December 12, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
What a joke; that's not what america is about, we don't reward failures.

Comment by damian — December 12, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
UAW = McDonald's Employee paid $73 per hr.

Comment by Capt Houreas — December 12, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
Hey Governor, it's SOCIALISM that is un-American! Chapter 11 bankruptcy is the right way to deal with this, and it's a very effective way too. Socializing the industry is a proven recipe for disaster.

Comment by Jeff in Phoenix — December 12, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
Hey governor, what ever happened to the free market? As a US citizen, I want the government to do just what the constitution provides. Im still trying to find the article where it provides for my tax dollars being used to boost up private business. FYI, there were more Democrats that opposed the auto bailout than Republicans! This isn't a bi-partisan issue. It is really an issue of constitutionality… Something that our current representative government is currently ignoring. The only thing un-american is your lack of knowledge about the principles this country was founded on, and the document that holds it together.

The unions are the problems here. No one is picking on auto employees anymore, they are extremely overpaid and their retirement benefits are bloated. There is no need for unions anymore. I work in the automotive aftermarket and I hope the big three restructure under the current bankruptcy laws. This hopefully would kill the unions and let them restructure with new blood at the helm, or die like many other auto and motorcycle companies before them. If they die, some ambitious entrepreneur will pick up the pieces and most likely return them to profitability and global competitiveness. Its time for them to sink or swim!~

Comment by Steve C — December 12, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
Un-American is a government that violates the rights of its people as elucidated in our nation's founding document, the Declaration of Independence. There is no right to a job, no right to a bailout, no right to getting your failure subsidized in there. I'm tired of politicians of all stripes describing those who disagree with them as "Un-American."

Comment by C-Weck — December 12, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
Who does this governor think he is fooling? He is just like the president of the UAW. I saw that fool on TV this morning with a phony email, no sender, no recipient, accusing republicans for the problems. All the republicans want is accountability. The democratic party wants to prevent bankruptcy by the auto makers because it will bust the unions and the democratic party can't live without the unions playing quid pro quo. The UAW is more than half the problem with the auto industry. Talk about your golden parachutes and feather bedding. They bent over backwards to make the deal for the 14 billion. They bent over backwards strong arming the senators that owe them. I guess they think we are all stupid.

Comment by NC Realist — December 12, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
GM sold 9.37 million cars last year and LOST 38 billion…Toyota sold 9.37 million cars last year and MADE 17 billion. When you look for the how and why this happened you will have the answer to fix it. Why does the common man have more common sense than the people running government ?

Comment by sean connor — December 12, 2008 @ 2:58 pm
Only a fool would actually believe that "millions" of jobs will be lost if the Three go CH11. Here's a very simplified plan, better than Congress sh**heads have the balls to come up with:
1. DO NOT PAY BAILOUT
2. FIRE CEO's
3. Ch 11 proceedings
4. Move ALL automotive operations to another deserving State w/o mandatory Union laws.
4. Whatever pension fund is left stays; NO MORE CONTRIBUTIONS EVER…dissolved benefit. (I don't get a pension, do you?)
5. Union workers are gone. If they want jobs in this century, they must trust the laws on the books and work sans union. Unions are history.
6. Congress to stop ridiculous standards for cars no one can meet.
7. Eliminate gas guzzler tax: AMERICANS like to drive big cars, get over it.

Lucky seven

It would be nice also if gas stations would carry the flex-fuels so many US cars are engineered for. Zero here in South Florida

Comment by Rob — December 12, 2008 @ 2:58 pm
OK, so the fact that the UAW and the American based auto companies pay their employees a good salary, give them good benefits and a retirement income is now a bad thing. Of course, no one is asking the senators about their health care, their retirement or their salaries. Or why workers in other states and other industries don't have this standard of living. Of course we ought to bring the standard of living of Americans in line with the labor coolies in China and other third world countries, and they ought to damn glad they have the opportunity to work and live in our "free market" country. The UAW and the American based car companies ought to be like the foreign mfrs whose governments cover their employees for their health care and provide decent, livable and humane retirement benefits. And of course do things like subsidize the R&D and mfring base of the industries like auto and electronics, industries the US used to be a leader in. And the fact that the Senators from Kentucky, Alabama and Carolina have all given billions of tax abatements and subsidies to Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, and Hyundai, which are of course subsidies that are paid for by US taxpayers didn't have anything to do with their opposition to bailing out the Detroit based auto companies. And of course the governor of the state of Michigan is responsible for the financial meltdown which caused the credit crisis and the recession/depression the country is currently in the midst of. And sure chapter 11 is a good thing, that's why so many companies are rushing to file for it. Oh, by the way, don't let the fact that the quality of the US Auto companies products have improved tremendously and are on par with foreign based companies, who by the way are also showing a huge sales decrease. Or that the average wage of the line workers, once legacy costs for health care and retirement are factored out, are within $4 dollars of the foreign line worker. Or that the UAW basically agreed to pretty much every single demand the Republicans asked for, except to stop being a Union and representing the workers. Because we all know that we can trust companies to have the best interest of the country and their employees in mind when the management makes decisions. Certainly all of the recent history we have is proof that there is no reason for a Union to even exist. And of course nobody who works on a line, or cuts the grass or does anything else for a living deserves anything other than to be damn glad they have a job. Because nobody else deserves anything or, or works hard, or has a right to want anything other than to be a subservient serf. That's why real 'Muricans stand on there own two feet and do everything for themselves. Like educate their own children, pave their own roads, provide their own utilities, provide their own medical, dental, vision care….yeah, that's the America we live in, isn't it. Who is it that is drinking the kool-aid?

Comment by David Glick — December 12, 2008 @ 2:58 pm
I will tell you what is unAmerican…polititians not doing their jobs and union officals pricing the auto industry out of business.

Its laughable when these liberal governors, who has destroyed their state economies with the help of the unions blaming the GOP.
The GOP is not in charge anymore, you have to take responsibility sometime. I suggest you do it now!

Comment by Darrell — December 12, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
If you make a crap car and no one buys it you can't ask the government to buy it from you…un American. If you vote for someone because they say they will use my tax dollars to make your wallet fat that is un American. You must understand Big 3 and the Unions….America is a land of opportunity and if you squander your opportunity on greed then I will only sit and watch, you will not get my money nor my sympathy….I am not compelled to buy inferior products, the day of building a product that last a mere 5 years at a cost of $20,000 is over. And finally to you my sweet Canadian friend….I'm sooooo glad I no longer live in your state, your socialist views sicken me. This is the United States of America, we DO NOT NEED a lesson on what is and is not American, least of all from you.

Comment by Charles — December 12, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
WooHoo, I love most of you guys.

CH 11 for the Big 3, AXE the unions all together, and let the companies come up with their own personalized health care plans, retirement plans, etc. Bet they can save $2000/car just by cutting the $$$ off to the unions. But then again that would lay off a bunch of union people, maybe we should get a union for them call it the UUAW.

Comment by Kurt — December 12, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
The only reason this bill was voted down is because GOP is beholden to their financiers, not the Workers of this backwards country.

Comment by Samir — December 12, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
The Auto Bailout is a bad decision for the Automobile companies and the Nation. Like all other private sector businesses that suffer financial calamity GM must face the prospects of Chapter 11 filing and not expect the taxpayers to bail them out of a Flawed Business Model.

Have you forgotten the "other" automobile industry in Ohio- Honda of America and their numerous affiliates and suppliers?

When al the blather and nonsense has passed we, the taxpayers may find that our government, playing a high stakes game picking winners and losers, may well be financing an industry with a business plan so flawed that no right thinking private investor would touch.

The Japanese companies do not have labor unions. Their edge is realized in both cost and efficiency: the hard, cold truth is that workers work better in the non-unionized companies.

I have more evidence if you are interested- I have been involved in the automotive industry for 30 years and I have a lot to share.

Vern Mangold- Supplier to the Auto Industry

Comment by Vern Mangold — December 12, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
My GMC Yukon is the best vehicle I've ever had. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I owned a 4 Runner before….We'll see how long the Yukon will last…

Of course, you know…it WAS made by Union workers, so it might start hitting me up for cash, benefits, racing stripes, and silk sheets…the occasional muffler massage, etc…

Comment by Capt Houreas — December 12, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
Welcome to the Third World, Michigan!!! You union losers have finally killed the golden goose.

The American car industry is not dead; just the "unionized" American car industry. I wonder how many union leaders will eat filet mignon tonight?

J

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
BTW, why hasn't anyone asked Gov Granholm why no other industry is coming to Michigan? Could it be that they see exactly what is going on with the car industry??

Comment by Kurt — December 12, 2008 @ 3:04 pm
It's un-American not to bail out failing corps., it's un-American to not pay more taxes. This is what caused the creation of this country, and it can and will be recreated. These politicians have forgotten they are public servants and that this is a Democracy, we need to remind them quickly before the sh*t hits the fan.

Comment by Irondog — December 12, 2008 @ 3:04 pm
This is a very simple concept.

Democrats disagreeing with Republicans = Patriotic

Republicans disagreeging with Democrats = Un-American

Comment by Paul — December 12, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
Big 3? Dead men walking…and have been.

GM sells 9.7MM units and loses $38BB
Toyota sells 9.7MM units and MAKES $17BB

Hello!

Comment by Angusdude — December 12, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
The American people have absolute confidence in the American autoworker. They have, however, quite rightly lost confidence in the auto industry executives who have woefully mismanaged their companies.

I think most Americans would gladly be willing to provide financing to keep the companies from failing if new, competent leadership were a condition of the loan.

It's difficult to see how Governor Granholm could consider such a view to be unpatriotic unless, of course, in order to be patriotic today one must also be stupid.

Comment by GM — December 12, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
Hey, hose off, you fleshy-headed mutant, eh?

Comment by hoser — December 12, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
It would appear, Harry Reid is "un-american". He voted against this proposal.

Comment by Steve — December 12, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
NO�. NO�. NO bailout for Detroit! Let them go bankrupt, get rid of the union contracts then they can have their loans. Why should the UAW workers continue to reap $72 per hour plus an additional $31 per hour paid to the UAW for benefits, all on the backs of the tax payer???? It is wrong, wrong, wrong! If they are in trouble, they need to restructure and cut, just like the rest of us!

I am in the residential new home industry. I have been �downsized� twice within one year. I have exhausted my benefits, my life savings are wiped out thanks to Wall Street (and they still get their bonuses thanks to the government) and am in danger of losing my home. Who is bailing me out??????? I guarantee the mortgage/housing debacle lost more jobs that all the car manufacturers put together. But no one is helping that industry. The Democrats are in the pocket of the unions�it is a travesty. How can you in good conscious support this effort? Do the unions own all the congressmen as well?????

Comment by Phoebe — December 12, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
Hey if we don't bailout the auto industry then the mayor of Detroit won't be able to roll around town in an Escalade.. What kind of message do you think that would send?

Comment by Kwame Kilpatrick — December 12, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
Gettlefinger is an idiot as anyone listens to him on WJR understands. Big 3 will never be competitive unless UAW dies. Unless they pony up to the table, Repubs are absolutely right to avoid sending $$$ down the drain. Again, anyone who works in this business as I do understands this. Total hourly cost is only a small part of it. These employees are allowed to self-disconnect with the needs of the company. They are not engaged. That cost is incaluable and is the real difference between Big 3 and transplants. Engaged and caring workforce.

Comment by jimmy not THAT jimmy — December 12, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
I don't buy their piece of crap cars and now this
parasitic piece of political filth wan'ts me to buy their company?

Comment by Bilejones — December 12, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
I don't get why GOP asked UAW to lower its wages. Are we still living in America, land of the free?

What happened to the GOP that loves free enterprise?

RIP GOP.

Comment by Samir — December 12, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
Harry Reid is more of a scooter type of guy. No, he's just a MORON and he and Pelosi just stir the pot - they have no sense of obligation to any of us and they are not committed to working with anyone else who does not 100% agree with them.

Comment by Capt Houreas — December 12, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
What's Unamerican is running crappy companies and keeping them on life support.

Comment by marxo — December 12, 2008 @ 3:10 pm
Maybe we should also bail out the ex-Mayor of Detroit!!! What a democratic cess pool the blue states are. Illinois is good example. Obamas home!!! You must be proud.

Comment by Darrell — December 12, 2008 @ 3:10 pm
Sorry it would be UN-American to vote for a bailout. If you make unsound business decisions
be adult enough to take the consequences be it bad product or bad labor contracts. Every Man, woman and child has to. Why not the Auto industry and Unions for making bad choices.

Comment by George — December 12, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
Yes, as it turns out, rewarding mismanagement and greed with billions of dollars (to be wasted on more mismanagement and greed) is a very American thing.

I think it's time to stop this folly. Start bailing yourself. And Michigan, Michigan, Michigan — dump this faux leader. She is part of the problem.

Comment by Prospector — December 12, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
UAW is the cause of every problem, they get paid at least twice an ACTUAL skilled carpenter union guy and they possess ZERO skills. A ROBOT CAN DO THEIR JOB FIRE THEM ALL

Comment by chris — December 12, 2008 @ 3:13 pm
LOL - Women, minorities and unions are sheep for the Democrat party. When it came time for HAND OUTS and the Republicans said "tough", it was sweet justice. You are just lucky that Bush is a RINO and will cave to you useless scumbags.

Comment by Kevin — December 12, 2008 @ 3:14 pm
I'll support a bailout on one condition. Bust the unions. That is the only thing that makes sense. You don't see the non-union auto makers begging for money! Bust the unions, fire ALL the execs, and then and ONLY THEN should anyone even consider giving these companies any money. And that threat of a "depression" has pretty much worn thin…find some other BS threat to use…none of us are buying that one anymore.

Comment by TGC — December 12, 2008 @ 3:14 pm
UAW + Democratic Governor = Corruption. What a Hindsection!

Comment by edgeland — December 12, 2008 @ 3:14 pm
Gov., the only thing un-american is your Canadian roots of socialism, and you want here. Go back to Canada.

Comment by Capitalist Texan — December 12, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
What is unamerican is that while others in the economy are taking paycuts so as to keep their jobs, the UAW has the gal to leave their contracts in place until 2011.

Michigan Gov should lower taxes like Texas. The auto industry and our whole economy are doing just fine down here. And Barack Obama wants to take these same policies and make them national?!?

Comment by Gary Thompson — December 12, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
The media have done about as bad a job of explaining to the public how a Chapter 11 bankruptcy would work in this situation as they did vetting Obama.

Comment by John M. Morrow — December 12, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
For once the politicians did the right thing. The UAW is what is unAmerican. All the UAW had to do was make concessions on wages, and this would have passed. GREED is becoming too American. Everyone has to sacrifice… look at those of us that have lost 40-50% in our retirement funds! It is ok for millions of Americans to see their retirement funds significantly reduced…. but, it is unamerican for the UAW to have to cut back on outrageous wages and benefits? Let the Big Three file for bankruptcy, and then the UAW will have to renegotiate immediately! Otherwise, the next bail-out dollars should be to reinstate everyone's 401K lost dollars. A taxpayer revolution is not far off, when we are expected to bail-out the GREEDY while our retirement dollars go down the drain! REMEMBER, THIS IS OUR MONEY NOT THE POLITICIANS… NOR THE UAW'S!!!!!

Comment by Rank — December 12, 2008 @ 3:18 pm
Samir,

The automakers and the UAW are asking for a government handout. When the government gives the auto companies billions of dollars in taxpayer money, they cease to be part of the "free enterprise" system. The GOP was right to ask for the UAW to lower wages. After all, those workers owe the American people for saving their jobs.

Comment by dd — December 12, 2008 @ 3:19 pm
The poor quality of the UAW and the executive management is all un american. POOR QUALITY AND HIGH PRICE, and now the AMERICANS have to pay for it. NO WAY. You want a bail out, produce a better product, get rid of the UAW and let the quality drive the price

Comment by JohnVH — December 12, 2008 @ 3:19 pm
NO ONE should be bailed out. Bailouts only complicate and prolong the problems. Banking, Wall Street, Insurance, and Auto Industries must live by same rules as ALL OTHER BUSINESSES. Who's next? When I need a bailout, who will I go to? Where is MY money?

Comment by John Wark — December 12, 2008 @ 3:21 pm
Automobile manufacturers have gone out of business in the past and America survived just fine.

What's un-American is businesses and labor groups who won't take responsibility for their incompetence, poor planning, and greed and expect the government to fix all their mistakes for them.

Comment by David — December 12, 2008 @ 3:21 pm
An incredible depth of ignorance is shown in previous comments about how America's unions have improved the lives of millions of workers. You've got to ask yourself, and hopefully reporters will be asking the GOP senators why it was okay to approve a $700 billion, no-strings, bailout for banks and Wall St. where firms will be passing out billions in Christmas bonuses to workers who are very well paid — and this year — undeservedly so. Hourly pay at Toyota's nonunion U.S. plants is higher than what GM workers make on average. It's the benefits that make the difference. And the friends of the GOP (Grease Our Palms, Grab Our Profits and Give Others Poverty) who have commented above want the auto workers to be stripped of their benefits and their pay cut in half to get a bailout for their company. Otherwise, the 3 million workers in auto-related industries could end up out of a job. That seems to be the GOP's end game.

Comment by robinhunter — December 12, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Not supporting or voting for a bail-out of Detroit automakers is "unAmerican"?!

Here's what's unAmerican — using the guns of the government's tax collectors to hijack one man's income or other propery and awarding it to another man — and I don't give a hang if that other man is rich or poor or middle-class.

Throw Uncle Sam and his bloody hangers-on from the train.

Comment by Osamas Pajamas — December 12, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
what's unamerican is for the governor to imply that the jobs of the auto workers ought to cause us more concern than the MILLIONS of other workers that have already lost their jobs, most of them making far less than the average $30/hour that the typically high school educated auto worker is making. Pure arrogance, much like the attitute of the "big 3″ for the past few decades.

Comment by john — December 12, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
I agree that the UAW is to blame here but we can't cast all unions into the UAW, some do serve a purpose. They give a voice to individual workers in a world of multi-national conglomerate companies. But when the leaders of the unions think of their pockets before the good of the whole company that is where it goes downhill fast. Its time for Chapter 11, restructure the UAW contract (with Federal mediation), pay workers a fair but not insane wage and make good competitive cars - this isn't that difficult.

Comment by Heyguy101 — December 12, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
GM is talking about shutting down Saturn because they cannot make it profitable. Now, if GM cannot make a profit with Saturn, their most automated assembly line with a lot less labor and production costs then their other product lines, what makes anyone think they can do it with their older assembly lines with higher labor and production costs…they can't!!!

Comment by Chuck — December 12, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
She has done nothing and jobs have bled out of the state. Kind of Ironic for a Canadian to label her opponents Un-American. It did not work for the Republicans in the general elction and it does not work in this case either.

Comment by FormerMichigander — December 12, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
Anyway we could sell JennyG for the $14 billion? She is a big reason the state is in this mess to begin with!

Comment by SB — December 12, 2008 @ 3:27 pm
Isn't this woman a Canadian????????
She wasn't even BORN in the USA.
Go back to Canuckland and tell them what to do—WE'RE ALL FULL UP WITH STUPID DOWN HERE!

Comment by YankeeSoonerBill — December 12, 2008 @ 3:27 pm
At #272: If the business model is a failing model (expenses exceed profits) - there is no reason to assist them. They'll just die later. The GOP asked the UAW to accept changes to make them competitive because it would change the model and allow BIG 3 cars to be more profitable (and then can pay back those loans). The fact that the UAW walked away from the deal because they refused to accept any real cuts (only deferments) tells me that this union won't bend to accomodate the current economic climate and therefore needs to be busted.

Comment by George — December 12, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
What is unamerican is the Big 3 making sh!tty cars for the last 30 years and paying ridiculous wages to the people that do it… That crazy bizz-nitch needs to tote her arse back to the Great White North, eh?

$100K *forklift* Drivers?
$70K screwdriver-turners?

If the UAW wants the automakers to survive - indeed, if the UAW wants to survive - then they need to play the same game as everyone else. Tighten the belt and move along with life.

If the Big 3 wants to survive, I have a Hint: MAKE BETTER CARS. ONES THAT DON'T SUCK.

Americans will buy the best product for the money. It's that simple.

Comment by Captain Obvious — December 12, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
good thing Michigan isn't solely in charge of this country…

hey Michiganders: take back your state before it's too late

Comment by kyle mccrady — December 12, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
first ask yourself this question.

If the private sector does not want to invest in them, they why should we? Doesn't that concern you that investors do not want to invest in these companies. The UAW is the reason.

The UAW needs to reduce it's benefits so that their members total compensation equals or beats Toyota. Why is that so hard to understand?

Toyota is doing much better than the former big 3. Come on, do the math, lower costs = lower cost vehicles. Or even better, lower costs = more money to actually develop cars that people want. Which by the way means good gas mileage, reliable cars.

I bought a mercury cougar. That car was a piece of junk and it's american. The other cars I have owned were not and they were not junk. I guess the governor is right Unamericans make better cars and that's why they don't need a bailout. Screw you Governor.

A patriotic american

Comment by Fairtrade — December 12, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
Gotta luv it - voting against American troops during wartime is patriotic. But voting against the UAW is unAmerican.

typical LIBERAL HYPOCRISY - RUN MICHIGAN AND/OR AUTO COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND THEN WANT TAXPAYERS TO BAIL YOU OUT.

THE AIRLINES TOOK THEIR BK AND LIVED THRU IT - TIME FOR AUTO COMPANIES TO DO SAME

If liberals bail out auto companies, I will never buy America auto again - I have had 29 new America care (1 every year and very few of them were low cost) so far

I am fairly sure that my employees will do same

Comment by Jack Kennedy — December 12, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
She obviously is unaware that it won't matter anyway because once Obama limits CO2 to 'save the planet' for Al Gore's scam - we'll all be riding horses again and heating our dark houses with horse dung. (While the Chinese enjoy lower taxes and a stronger military along with the US military secrets that Obama sells to them under the table.)

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 3:32 pm
Mike, please stop. You're funny but let's do a quick math check:

-235 million workers in the US
-3 million auto workers (1.2% of total workforce)

Conclusion: Even if every single one of them were unemployed the new unemployment rate would be 7.8, not "16.6″…unless you're making the claim that the support industries are comprised of 23 million jobs. Let me assure you, this is not the case.

In fact, from this morning's news, parts manufacturers want Chrystler to pay up front for its parts from now on. So, obviously they have already begun transitioning their business functions away from critical dependence on your doomed (albeit aparrently beloved) auto manufacturers. All that to say, nice try.

Comment by Jon — December 12, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
We did this to ourselves. Look, where are the guarentees that the auto industry won't be back in the same boat 6 months from now. How is this for the workers? One of the stipulations of the bailout is that the auto industry lay off workers. Lets not forget to mention that they don't make fuel efficient vehicles and can't compete with the japanese companies. One of the reasons that the 3 are in the red is because of the pay agreements with the unions. What these companies need is less government intervention…not more. Go ahead and waste the money if you must democrats…..when this fails and your out of money don't go raising taxes, printing more currency and blaming it on the Bush adminisration. This one is all you.

Comment by Chad — December 12, 2008 @ 3:34 pm
The UAW is no better than the old mob protection racket. They have been strong-arming the auto industry for decades and now it's time to pay the fiddler. Make consessions or go work in fast food. If the American public could vote on this bailout, I'll bet you would have 75% of us fitting Granholm's definition of un-American. Governor…you are a commie skank!

Comment by Mel — December 12, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
Please, let cooler heads prevail. I think the most American thing to do with Michigan and the UAW is to put them in a pot with California and just give them to whoever will take them, Russia, China, Mexico. The whole bunch are nothing but losers trying to milk more money for there non-productive ways. They always have their hand out. When you fill one hand up they will just stick the other hand out.

Comment by TEXAN — December 12, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
We wanted to continue our TWO DECADE Cadillac purchases.

SO-O-O-O Symbolic of GM:

Cadillac�s seat belts cut into the neck of my 6�5 husband and me (5� 3�) for FIVE years, without resolution!

Moreover, we had to spend $1000.00 annually for maintenances on the crappy front drive breaks of the Seville � I drive 500 miles annually!!!!

Why should the tax payers of the following states Bail Out the United Auto Workers and GM? Screw That!!!!!

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas
California Colorado Connecticut Delaware
Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho
Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas
Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland
Massachusetts Minnesota Mississippi
Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada
New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York
North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma
Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina
South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah
Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia
Wisconsin

Screw U General Motors and the Union you rode in on!!!!

Mercedes S- Class.

You Stink to Hell!!!!!

(When your salesman wanted to HOLD our driver's license for a test drive of former customers……..up-chuck U!)

Comment by BUMPY RIDE — December 12, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
How about people buying American cars? We do.

Comment by Linda — December 12, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
Let's see. The unions have voted themselves a free ride for years, under the threat of strike. They become complacent, and made lousy cars for two decades. Coupled with repeated management mistakes, Detroit now makes overpriced cars with fewer features because of excessive labor costs, pension costs, and other overheads. Non union workers here and overseas make better cars, for less, which is why Toyota is now the world market share leader. No debate. Scoreboard. So, to keep unions sucking at the tit of the U.S. taxpayer, the governor will penalize people who actually earn their money by giving it to people that voted themselves a free ride. Looks like the commie governor of Michigan has no clue what "un American" is, and maybe should start by looking in a mirror.

BTW…It is dumbocrat horsecrap to claim that the big three are essential to the U.S. economy. GM, Ford, Chrysler are not strategic, and the domestic auto industry is only 2-3 percent of the U.S. economy. Do the math, libs.

Comment by Doofus Alert!!! — December 12, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
What's really amusing in all this is that the side pushing the bailout of the big three historically complains about corporate welfare and tax breaks for corporations. The real reason for the sudden change of heart is payback to Union voters for their political support. The answer for the American auto industry is Chapter 11 bankruptcy and corporate restructuring. That, however, would require the unions to give back certain costly benefits that the auto makers cannot afford if they are to remain competitive. It would also mean loss of union power. Nevertheless, few if any jobs would be lost.

Comment by bamacharm — December 12, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
Remember the reply to Joe The Plumber? "My plan is not to penalize your success. However, we will all be better off if we share the wealth" I was against sharing the wealth at the time that Obama gave that answer. However, now it is starting to make sense. When the UAW decides to share their wealth then we will all be better off.

Also POST 265.. I am not certain that you are correct that Americans have confidence in the American Autoworkers, and the only problem is the Big Three Executives. I agree that the executives certainly share the blame. However, the greed and work ethics of the UAW (workers, are the union)share an equal portion of the blame! I, for one American, have no confidence that the industry will recover without major concessions by the UNITED AUTO WORKERS!

Comment by Rank — December 12, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
Comment for Mike.. that is why i do not buy american ccars. they are pieces of junk. I will not need any car parts. It is funny that the non-union car plants in the south are doing very well. in fact they are expanding.. it is called capitalism.. build a better car and u will sell them.. not some tree hugging tiny fred flintstone car that the dems in congress want. as they ride in their suv's i might add.

Comment by David — December 12, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
Airline companies have declared bankruptcy before and everyone who worked there didn't lose their jobs. Additionally, there are firings planned for the big three even if the loans are awarded so 3 million people will not be losing their jobs. Lets get our fingers off the PANIC button.
The Big three almost had the money in hand… all the UAW had to do is own up to their part of this problem and pledge to help fix it. They didn't. So if they won't accept some, NOT ALL of the blame, I won't pony up MY tax money.
This is the worst case scenario for the union workers. The union is selling them out to try and perpetuate the existence of the union. Remember the union bosses don't lose their job when the workers do. If the big three close shop the UAW workers will only have the UAW to blame!

Comment by Mark (DPRNJ) — December 12, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
Yea, Granholm knows all aobut unAmerican growing up in Canada.

Go back to running MI into the ground and leave the rest of us alone.

Comment by swift boater — December 12, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
It sounds like the Governor of Michigan runs her state like the car companies manage their business. That's with a deficit and poor management skills.

Comment by Ken — December 12, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
To Big Three:

Your products are pieces of !@#$.

Your workers are overpaid.

Good bye.

Comment by lajollasurfer — December 12, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
The UAW builds garbage which is why I don't buy American any more—mix that with shitty Management and what does it spell–BANKRUPTCY!!

Comment by RRR — December 12, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
What is un-american is socializing this country. Bailouts need to stop. Sorry bankruptcy will not eliminate these companies only shareholders change and then most will be rehired after unions are dismantled

Comment by Charlie — December 12, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
If the auto companies were viable companies, private institutions would lend the money. Hey, why doesn't the UAW lend the compnaies money?

Roll Tide!!

Comment by Tom — December 12, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
Poor management and a severe lack of adherence to market demand is what may cause a depression, bailed out or not. The root of this problem needs to be addressed.

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
UAW = UnAmerican Auto Workers

Comment by zak — December 12, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
What a great thread. Seems like all are running along the same lines, and that is ENOUGH of the UAW liberal entitlement mentality. One post, though, hit the nail on the head. We still have the congress, both Republicans and Dems, who have no term limits. They attach themselves to the public teat and stay there for 14 terms (Barney Frank) or more….What will it take to get term limits for this clowns? Our founding fathers were successful businessmen first, then went to Washington for a few months, for a small stipend, to do their civic duty by doing the business of the people. What happened to those principles?
The current mentality is get elected, get rich.
TERM LIMITS!!!!!!

Comment by KURT — December 12, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
Looking for an instant fix for the Big 3: dissolve the UAW.

Every non-UAW car company is expanding production here in the US, but the UAW keeps moaning about the "death of manufacturing". If the UAW won't budge, let them go to bankruptcy court and justify their position.

Comment by K2 — December 12, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
great, a governor from Canada, an inept governor at that, calling senators un American. That's as un American as it gets!

Comment by An American — December 12, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
The governor of Michigan is an incompetent and clueless FOOL JUST LIKE the auto executives. These charlatans think the American public are morons and asleep at the switch. It's time that they face REALITY AND STOP LIVING IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE.

Comment by roy levine — December 12, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
The fact is that the car companies will NOT go out of business because there is too much demand for their product. People need cars. Car companies need to be more efficient. They need to get rid of the union because that adds $2,000 to the price of every car made. Let the car companies use bankruptcy as a means to reorganize, become more efficient, remove entrenched management for new thinking and innovation. I believe in america and I believe in the car companies. They just need to change their business model because they will not solve anything by continuing with 20th century business practices in a 21st century economy.

Comment by john — December 12, 2008 @ 3:44 pm
The new text book:" An analysis of the bankruptcy of GM is being written."

Jennie babes will be prominently mentioned. She will be given credit for the fact that NO Republican will buy a GM made car.

Make a mental note of this prognostication ! It will surely come to pass !

Comment by Historical Textbook — December 12, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
I say goodbye to the overpaid Union Workers who can not make a feasible car to compete with Toyota and the other foreign manufacturers.

NOT ONE TAXPAYER DIME SHOULD GO TO THESE AUTO KNUGGLEHEADS!!

They need bankruptcy in order to reorder things and get rid of the FAT!

That includes Auto Upper Management!

Comment by Steve P — December 12, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
Go easy #4. The whole country just voted to follow Michigan's democratic lead path to 'success'.

Comment by iron308 — December 12, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
A vote FOR socialism is UNAMERICAN!

Comment by totalkaosdave — December 12, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
My family came to Detroit and has 4 generations working in the Auto Industry. I drive a 2003 Ford Focus Station Wagon 141,000 miles. Still gets 30 mpg and only have performed normal maintenance wear/tear. American cars can compete now. However, I can't really understand how giving them money will suddenly flock buyers into the show rooms to purchase the cars?????

Comment by jksu2 — December 12, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
Why should folks making $15/hr subsidize
those not working and making $28/hr??????

Comment by deny — December 12, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
Why doesn't Toyota, which has several plants in the US, need a bail out?

Comment by Seeker — December 12, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
TO THE DIP STICK: Comment by Linda � December 12, 2008 @ 3:36 pm

1. How about people buying American cars? We do.

______________________________

We TRIED FOR FIVE YEARS!!!!!!!

PIZZ on that!
1. We wanted to continue our TWO DECADE Cadillac purchases.
SO-O-O-O Symbolic of GM:
Cadillac�s seat belts cut into the neck of my 6�5 husband and me (5� 3�) for FIVE years, without resolution!
Moreover, we had to spend $1000.00 annually for maintenances on the crappy front drive breaks of the Seville � I drive 500 miles annually!!!!
Why should the tax payers of the following states Bail Out the United Auto Workers and GM? Screw That!!!!!
Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas
California Colorado Connecticut Delaware
Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho
Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas
Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland
Massachusetts Minnesota Mississippi
Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada
New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York
North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma
Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina
South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah
Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia
Wisconsin
Screw U General Motors and the Union you rode in on!!!!
Mercedes S- Class.
(When your salesman at McGinnis Cadillac in Houston wanted to HOLD our driver's license for a test drive of former customers who paid CASH��..up-chuck U!)

SCREW Cadillac�s pimp-looking automobiles!

_________________________
_________________________

How about Obama's Presidential Cadillac, PIMP-MO-BILE???

Comment by BUMPY RIDE — December 12, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
"And the friends of the GOP (Grease Our Palms, Grab Our Profits and Give Others Poverty) who have commented above want the auto workers to be stripped of their benefits and their pay cut in half to get a bailout for their company. Otherwise, the 3 million workers in auto-related industries could end up out of a job. That seems to be the GOP's end game."

First, the GOP can go to hell with the rest of the arrogant SOBs running our government. Second, what we (generally speaking) are suggesting is 1) "strip benefits" (no one else gets them…auto manufacturers can't afford them anyway) 2)"pay cut in half" 3) NO BAILOUT. A bailout wouldn't be necessary if the unions hadn't fough to artificially inflate the value of labor above market cost. Why should we reward an industry for doing what market forces would have led it to do 20 years ago? Ascinine.

Suggestion to auto-workers: Get out now!!! Save youselves!!! The government can't save you anyway, so cut your losses and find a livable wage before the price of labor is driven down by mass unemployment.

Comment by Jon — December 12, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
this is why I will never ever be a Republican or vote for a Republican as long as I'm alive and breathing on this earth. The Republicans are nothing but a party of hatred for the typical average American worker trying to make a living for their family. the un-American Republican senators should take a pay cut and live on about 400.00 per week for about 1 year and I guarantee that they would know what it's like to be the so called average Joe.As far as I'm concerned the Republicans are pissed off that Obama was elected to be our President and I know that this is nothing but a pay back from the sore losers that lost the election. I say maybe it's time to terminate the Republican party from this country altogether and it would be a much better place without the warmongers who hate the unions of this country who stands up for workers rights so that we can make a decent living. the Republican party should be called the The Ku Klux Klan Republican Party because of all the hatred they have towards everyone except themselves

Comment by laurie — December 12, 2008 @ 3:49 pm
I absolutely feel there should be a bailout of the American auto industry. There are several reasons why:

1) they have geniuses for executive management and the federal government should ensure they are well compensated for their strategic prowess

2) the average wage for the workers at these factories is around $50 per hour (not including benefits and a pension plan, of course). Most American workers make far more than that. We need to ensure that the workers retain $104,000 per year is a livable wage (school teachers make more, government workers make more–in fact, I'll just bet that $104,000 is barely above the poverty level)

3) the products made by the big three auto makers are decidely inferior (possible exception of some trucks). We can thank the geniuses and the impoverished workers for that accomplishment.

4) this situation isn't Chrysler and there is no Lee Iacocca. If the taxpayers really believe that they'll see the money back then there are some people who will have land in Michigan to sell them. Bankruptcy (or some form of real reorganization) is going to happen anyway.

5) look at the bank bailout. Most of the TARP money is not providing credit relief from the banks. The bank bailout was a terrible idea and will fail. The auto industry will have a fighting chance only when a judge gets to work on chapter 11 proceedings.

Kudos to Governor Granholm for her impeccable logic.

Comment by NRobinson — December 12, 2008 @ 3:49 pm
Before, all proposals were "for the children". Now, these programs are for "America". Pretty soon, they will be for "American Children".

Rick

Comment by Rick Caird — December 12, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
Un-American. Read the constitution. Where does it say that the government should interfere? The Michigan economy is in tatters due to the actions of this governor. She should be impeached!!!!!

Comment by Acres — December 12, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
Just added Granholm's name to my "LYNCH LIST" of corrupt politicians/corporatists/plutocrats that pander for their own at the expense of the rest of the USA and have led to this economic meltdown built on a house of cards that privitizes gains for the privileged few while socializing the losses to everyone. Things are going to get worse — bailout or not. Let's vote NO — giving bailouts is just going to make things worse in the long run. Let's go back to Constitutional principles — Our forfathers would be turning in their graves at the mess this country has become due to not adhering to it!

Comment by jmm99 — December 12, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
Governor,

"Un-American"? The federal government's bailouts of banks, nationalization of AIG, and imposed business plans on "private" companies is based on the failed economic system of North Korea, Cuba, and most recently of the former U.S.S.R, the countries of the Eastern European block, and China.

Maybe BHO & you will just have to "eliminate" all of us who do not endear themselves to your state-run economic system of central planning of our private enterprise & free market system since that is normally how the governments of state-run economies utimately evolve and solidify their total control.

Comment by Joe-Newport Beach — December 12, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
Governor Granholm's comments miss the mark. While it is "American" to give a hand to a neighbor in need, it is also "American" to be self-reliant. America is an ideal manifested over two centuries ago by good people fleeing an overreaching government. We are in danger of repeating history.

From my vantage point, it is those demanding tax payer dollars to bail out the auto industry who are "Un-American".

Comment by G Reynolds — December 12, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
That's funny considering it's coming from a canadian. I always knew Granholm was not the sharpest pencil in the box but, to call someone un-american because you disagree with their vote, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? The UAW has done this to themselves through years of ridiculous demands and concessions from the moronic management of the "pathetic three". The UAW has become the machine that unions were designed to provide protection from. Guess what boys, the free ride is over and your going to have give up some of those ridiculous benefits you have managed to get for yourselves and suck it up with the rest of us. And as for Jennifer Granholm, quite possibly, one of the worst govenors the great state of Michigan has ever had…Granholm should have been thinking about this a long time ago especially given the fact that Michigan has been in a recession longer than just about any place else in the nation. The day that the UAW would bankrupt the auto manufacturers has been coming for a while. The credit crisis merely accelerated it's arrival.

Comment by Indyaga — December 12, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
The only thing unAmerican is for losers in the Midwest blame those of us elsewhere with a begging bowl — these guys are nothing but hostile panhandlers. You are evil if you don't give them what they want. GOv Granholm should have headed the Soviet Politburo, instead of being the Gov of an American state. Shame on her!

Comment by GhettObama — December 12, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
Let all these jacka$$ liberals in government put their OWN DAMN MONEY ON THE LINE! Let's see each of them loan the UAW their individual shares in their government pension plan! The congressional rip off artists risk NOTHING in handing the UAW our tax money while their pension is totally immune to the economy cuz it's backed by the US Treasury! That while OUR retirement money is tied up many of the very same companies they are about to screw up with even MORE regulations on top of the ones that put the companies at a disadvantage in the first place!

How many of these politicians ever designed or built a car? How many ever cured a disease? How many ever dug coal out of the ground? How many know anything about simple economics?

They're almost all a bunch of friggin LAWYERS! LIBERAL POLITICIANS SIMPLY DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME WORLD AS US!! RECALL THEM! KICK THEM ALL OUT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
I was so infuriated when I heard how much these UAW workers made in pay and benefits and being paid while not working that I am not buying another dodge or anything made by these workers.

Hey my husband does not get paid if he does not work.

All this bailout crap is what is unAmerican.
These people have no pride its all gimme gimme gimme.

Comment by nocella — December 12, 2008 @ 3:53 pm
Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm (D) said it was "un-American" for senators to have voted against approving a bailout of troubled automakers.

To the contrary, a bailout is un-American. We have bankruptcy laws which need to be used.

Even special fat cats — union, corporate, or lawmakers — should follow the laws in place.

Comment by Desmond — December 12, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
Someone that pulls a level in a warm factory does NOT deserve to make more than a cop or a firefighter risking their lives out in the cold, yet alone our military. NO indisutry could be competive providing heathcare for life. THAT is why the big three have failed. That and some help from congress with idiodic regulations.

Comment by Reason — December 12, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
To: Ms Granholm

I do not support your request for a "bailout" and I am not Un-American.

The appropriate thing to do here is allow the companies to re-org under chapter 11…..its happenend plenty of times before without sending our country into a "depression".

That you as Gov of MI act as if this is the end of the world is incredible. IT IS NOT!

If you really want to lead your state then you should begin by acknowledging to your constitutients that tremendous changes (and that includes sacrifices) will be needed to keep the big 3 viable. Begging the Federal Government (read taxpayer) for a few billion will do nothing but prolong the problems.

Feel free to resign if don't feel capable of leading in a time of crisis.

Comment by Jerry — December 12, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
This stupid whore thinks it's Un-American to say its not right to steal money one group or American taxpayers to bail out her own personal Special Interest group? The Founding Fathers are turning over in their graves. This bailout plus the original Banking bailout are both Un-Constitutional and there is nothing more Un-American than that!!!

Comment by dlbizzz — December 12, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
I love it. this liberal tax and spend Governor who wants us all to forget about self reliance and rely on the government to take care of us now finds herself relying on the whims of those who are in a position of more power. How does it feel, Jennifer? I'm glad to know that she has been tabbed to be part of Dear Leader's economic brain trust.

The UAW does not even know the first rule of a good parasite….Don't kill the host.

Comment by Heywood Jablowme — December 12, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
You know .. a NATIONAL STRIKE is starting sound like the ONLY option left to the TAX PAYING public to stop this insanity.

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
It's only a short term fix. Even if the companies restructure financially and eliminate that ridiculous job bank program (no other industry has such a program) the American population has been steadily buying foreign brand cars, even if they are made here in the USA. Why…quality. The big three still don't match up in quality. Do you want me to buy a new Chevrolet comparably equipped instead of a new Honda? It better be cost 40% less, because it will depreciate that amount when you drive it off the lot, it costs more to maintain over 100,000 miles, and the paints, and other materials don't hold up when compared to a Honda. Now if you can sell a car at the same price as a Honda, AND give BETTER QUALITY, BETTER DURABILITY, BETTER PERFORMANCE, AND BETTER STYLING people will move back to American cars. People are not un-American but they do want quality and value when they spend $20,000 for a new car.

Comment by Matt — December 12, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
The bail out subject just phukin' irritates the Hell out of me. These stupid ass people who are calling those that are against the bail out of the UAW (that's right, the UAW, not the "Big Three) need to pull their collective heads out of their asses. The people have told their representatives how to vote on this BS bail out program for the UAW and they said NO! This is a representative style of government and that's how things work here. It's the American way. If you don't like…then get the Hell out! Oh, and another thing, if you're too damn stupid to make sound business decisions then you don't stay in business and you damn sure don't get bailed out by the American taxpayers!

Let the auto manufacturers declare bankruptcy just like airline companies did, or any other business can! There is NO @#$DAMN reason, WHATSOEVER, keeping GMC, Ford, and Chrysler from declaring chapter 11 bankruptcy except for the phukin' UAW pukes. This is the real reason that this hasn't been remedied already. The UAW wants the bail out to go through because they know that if the manufacturers declare bankruptcy all the contracts have to be renegotiated. Bankruptcy means that the UAW will be COMPELLED to make concessions…concessions that they are not obligated to make with the bail out.

Comment by Palerider — December 12, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
Don't forget, Granholm and the rest of her Democrat ilk (including Obama) are the supporters of the Union wet dream "Card Check" bill. This craptacular legislation will, if passed, take secret ballots away from workers (How's THAT for un-American???) and allow unions to greatly extend their poisonous grip… all they will have to do to create a union shop at a company is have their thugs intimidate enough of the workers during the card voting ("Hey, you checked the 'No' box on here, pencil neck… sounds like I'm going to hafta re-edumacate you out back in the alley until you see the light") to get over the 50% 'yes' point, and they're in!

Comment by Dave in SoCal — December 12, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
Most of the POT BELLIED UAW folks I see on the news would not be able to hold down a real job in a non union car plant so I understand their concern—PARTIES OVER!!!

Comment by RRR — December 12, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
lower the corporate taxes and help all industries in america !

Comment by bobby phischer — December 12, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
Thread 318 hit it on the head. They all start out small(school district, city, county, state, or if your a popular celeb. you get the pass to run straight for the Senate) and their hands get greased along the way. The 1st thing the majority of elected idiots do is start looking for there next t i t to suck. They spend your tax dollars trying to figure out what is in it for them. The idiot from Illinois got caught because he wasn't schooled or intelligent enough to hide his reward, but every single one of them do it! Just look at your local figure heads, they never go away, if not in goverment they are working as "consultants" for the slime they were bribed by when they were in office. Who knows what the answer is?

Comment by TEXAN — December 12, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
GO BACK TO CANADA GRANHOLM!

Comment by Henry Dearborn — December 12, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
I agree with Mike M everyone has to vote in new congress men and senators from every state no more of friends and family real people from our communities and term limits no more of going to Washinton and making it a career and no more pensions and crap we will save a ton.

These people are destroying our country.
This is not the promise of America.

Washington is broken and everyone who votes these same ol same ol back in are the problem.

Comment by nocella — December 12, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
Laurie - Post 322

By not supporting the bailout we can keep my/your politics off the free markets. GM and the UAW each made choices and this is where they find themselves. Now they both need to sit down and play nice if they want to stay in existence. The choices they make now they will have to live with in the future. They should both be held accountable for the choices they have made.

Comment by Mark (DPRNJ) — December 12, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
Let's hope there was equal vitriol when the bank got their gift.The number of a55e5 here is absolutely astounding but then again, when you're only facing a keyboard, snarkiness is a virtue.

Comment by marytee — December 12, 2008 @ 4:00 pm
How about all these politicians that are for the bailout pool there money together and bail out the automakers. It seems a lot easier to spend others money…spend your own if your that concerned!

Comment by Robert — December 12, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
You spend $35,000 for a Big Three vehicle and another $35,000 fixing the damn thing in the 5–10 years you own it just to keep it on the road…SORRY, BOYS, PARTIES OVER!!!!!!!

Comment by RRR — December 12, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
Only in the Democrat party can it be un-American to agree with over 60% of the American population.

Paraphresing what others before have said, why should my taxes be used to bail out workers making three times as much as me?

The "Big 3″ would just come back a year after a bailout and say they need more-not because it was a stupid idea, but because it just was not enough money the first time.

Comment by Missouri Guy — December 12, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
"The Republicans are nothing but a party of hatred for the typical average American worker trying to make a living for their family." - let's run this through the Liberal translator:

Republicans are nothing but a party of hatred = I will now project my hatred and bitterness on the other side because I fear I have allowed my dependency on others to doom myself and my family to poverty.

typical average American worker = me and my handful of nutty and/or corrupt friends who intend to profit by exploiting the situation of the people who do the work

trying to make a living for their family = living off of the unions and the government because that's all that the socialist policies that we advocate left them with (don't worry though, we'll create 'pretend jobs' working for companies that make no money, propped up by the productive taxpayers- and they'll get raises every year just like workers at a real business, so they can keep their pride and call themselves "working Americans").

- and the great news about all of this- if we create a group of people that is completely dependent on Liberal politicians for their livelihood and pride, the Libs never ever have to worry about their re-election! The people will have no choice but to vote for the government officials that throw them just enough crumbs to keep them alive. Wow. I can't wait for the Libs vision of America to become a reality!

Comment by Frank — December 12, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
Here is a link to a photo of a UAW contract:

http://laborpains.org/2008/12/12/22-pounds-uaw-rules-and-regulations/

Comment by JDW — December 12, 2008 @ 4:02 pm
Our good Republican Senators are sowing the wind. All the regional bigotry against UAW will come home to roost once the foreign car makers, subsidized by the 'right to work' state governments, start shutting their assembly lines because there will be no one able to buy their product.

Gack. Some folks, like turkeys, are too dumb to breed, yet manage the trick anyway.

Comment by imadoc — December 12, 2008 @ 4:02 pm
To LAURIE #332
____________________

Hey! Laurie!!

You are SO wrong.

Republican�s are all for you accomplishing your Nirvana.

We simply request that you do so independently, in accordance with the Constitution, and DO NOT COMPEL other citizens, (through your confiscatory tax structure from your LEFTIST, draconian laws,) —- fund your dreams!

Dream On. —-

But Fund it Yourself!!!!!

SMOOOOOTCH!

Comment by BUMPY RIDE — December 12, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Un-American?!! .. that's funny as hell.. Most Americans know it's the Union that's killing the auto industry -

Gov. Granholm needs to get her facts straight. and the Senate supposedly is the voice of the people - so are all the people Un-American?

Let em all go under and figure out a way to compete and build a decent product - what a novel idea!

Comment by Marky — December 12, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Those who are calling for bankruptcy have no idea what they are talking about!

The auto companies need access to cash not only to pay prior debt but to pay for things like raw materials and labor to continue operations.

Yes the auto manufactures have been inexcusably stupid, for those of us that drive Honda's and Toyota's — Japan has been providing cash to those companies for years. For those plants that are in the US those states that arrogantly now are pointing their fingers at the Union's, have granted tax free status to those foreign plants to operate.

Calling people fat cat's who have worked in a complex business for years and by the way made cars profits and generated jobs for years. The $4.00 gallon gas price and the credit crunch was caused in Washington and not Detroit.

And those who say that Detroit has not been producing cars, the American public wanted Trucks, SUV's and mini vans.

Saying the auto companies should go bankrupt is sheer stupidity.

Comment by Geek — December 12, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
It is un-american to use my tax money to bail out a mis-managed, failure of an industry. Let them file for bankruptcy and start over. The current economic conditions are not responsible for the auto industries collapse, therefore, no bailout money.

Comment by Stanley — December 12, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
leave it to a Canadian to tell Americans what is 'Un-American'

Comment by brett — December 12, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Michigan is a sanctuary state for Muslim terrorists, and this dingbat is calling opponents of a $75/hr wage for brain dead parts hangers and retiree infant care "un-American." Bite me.

Comment by Joe — December 12, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
Bumpy Ride..

Word! Let them do it themselves!

Comment by Mark (DPRNJ) — December 12, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
I am waiting for the US to collapse!!! Can't wait…can't wait…teehee teehee.

Comment by heading down — December 12, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
Many of the same people voting FOR the UAW bailout voted AGAINST funding for the troops. The UAW actually refused to let a Marine park in one of their lots because the Marine sticker on his car was "too political in nature". These "men" of the UAW are in the pockets of fey, idiotic "chicks" like Pelosi, Boxer and this idiot governor. How pathetic is that - not only does the UAW require the government for its subsidies. It requires the government of people like "Blinks" Pelosi. Can any man really imagine having to be beholden to THAT woman!? LOL!

And about the housing debacle - don't tell me that Barney didn't have his Frank in Freddie's Fannie. He most certainly did.

Comment by JDW — December 12, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Hmmm…. well if the Govenor didn't have such an anti business state running that allows unions to run rampant… then maybe JUST MAYBE the auto manufacturers wouldn't be in this mess… I don't hear of the same monetary debacle happening with the foriegn manufactures that have factories and assembly plants here… only for the American ones…

Comment by Kate — December 12, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
Offering 1 million for a Senate Seat like Jesse Jr. did is Un American, prosecuting American Soldiers while giving terrorists a trial by jury is Un American, Redistributing wealth is Un American, creating a "fairness doctrine" that allows the government to regulate free speech is Un American, banning 2nd Amendment right to own firearms is Un American, bailing out a PRIVATE COMPANY WITH TAX PAYER FUNDS IS UN AMERICAN!

Comment by worddust — December 12, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
luv the LIBERAL VITRIOL AND HATE to anybody that does not want to use taxpayer dollars to keep union mooks in jobs.

I havent had income for 5 months and the liberals and unions think my tax money should be used to pay autoworkers bills - WHERE IS MY BAILOUT - WHO WILL PAY MY BILLS ??????

Comment by Real American — December 12, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
Hey #295 post - this is from a Reagan conservative - Michigan is a beautiful state, full of some of the nicest suburbs in the country, and the largest freshwater lakes in the world. Our second largest industry is leisure - come vacation here sometime. Unfortunately, we are stuck with liberal politicians, crooked unions and a large city that has been run by the biggest reverse racists since the seventies. Please don't write us off - we are struggling under an enormous yoke of liberalism gone amok.

Comment by Freddie Mercury — December 12, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
Too bad, Joe, and there aint a damn thing you can do about it, is there. bwaaaaa…HA HA.

I am my muslim brothers wish you well.

Comment by dork-us — December 12, 2008 @ 4:11 pm
Execuse me but i don't want to give my tax money to the auto industry nor did i want to give my tax money to the banks either. This is america and i have the right to vote for or against. So how is that un-american. People in power who don't get their way are always using this un-american phrase….

Comment by Nick — December 12, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
Get off it Geek! Right here in the USA, Honda makes SUV's, Toyota makes big pick up trucks and they're doing fine! So, what's the difference? - THE UAW IS A DIFFERENCE! THE GOVERNMENT C.A.F.E. MANDATE IS A DIFFERENCE!

I'm from Pittsburgh, there was no bail out for the US Steel companies when the unions put them under back in the 80's. Slag workers were making over $40K back then. Hello cheap foreign steel!

What would CURE the union problem is:

1. No more government worker unions - PERIOID! (There is no basis for having them at all - the government is not a for profit business)

2. Pass a national "RIGHT TO WORK" that guarantees every worker the right to NOT join a union if they do not wish to do so.

fixed

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
The only problem with Big 3 Leadership is they've been kissing too much union ass.

They should have put the unions out of work long ago and moved everything to a right-to-work state. Then all those union goons could bust all those union member's heads to squeeze that last drop of blood out of that last turnip.

Then everyone in Michigan can just starve to death.

J

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
I think its ridiculous we should have to bail them out……they made their own bed, and I think they should sleep in it….

Unfortunately, they are holding us at gunpoint and they know it….losing that many jobs is unconscionable.

No matter how this works out…the UAW better make some changes and lower those stupid salaries… Its just crazy to think that these people make much more than I do, and I went to college….. Whats up with that?????? Not to mention, they dont do overtime…. And again, whats up with that??????

If they are bailed, they BETTER redo all their union contracts, build some decent cars for a change, and actually put some thought into what they are making and what people want…. this is just ridiculous…

Comment by timtan — December 12, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
There's nothing "un-American" about expecting multi-billion dollar businesses to take care of themselves.

What is un-American is thinking that the people's money is the government's money, and that the nation can be improved by "nationalizing" businesses, especially those that have been practicing bad business for so long.

If the auto companies are really concerned about their product, they can survive. If the UAW is really concerned about jobs, they can make concessions. The rest of us have to.

Comment by Bruce Parsons — December 12, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
I like the idea of a national strike but that may not be necessary. First we must note that the Big 3 and the UAW APPEAR TO BELIEVE that the American car buying public will continue to buy their cars at AT LEAST THE SAME RATE as before, and possibly at a greater rate given the PROMISES of Detroit to change. This is their fantasy.In other words the BIG 3 and the UAW think you ARE STUPID. You need to convince them that you may be stupid but not stupid enough to buy cars from government run companies who are asking you in effect to buy the cars IN ADVANCE of their being produced at an inflated cost. The American Car Buying public needs to correct this impression and Communicate their intentions with regard to Buying Big 3 cars, not just ranting and raving in the Internet. Rather than a National Strike let's just agree to not patronize ANY BUSINESS which seeks nationalization or accepts it. A list of Companies to be boycotted should be generated.

Comment by DAK — December 12, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
The governor of Michigan has a lot of nerve. Im sorry she thinks we are unamerican for not wanting to bail out the UNIONS who make $78 an hour while most AMERICANS dont even come close to that amount. I think she is UNAMERICAN for expecting the AMERICAN people to pay through the NOSE because some people did not have BACKBONES to stand up and say NO, to the unions!!!

Comment by Randi — December 12, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
All bailouts are absurd. Granholm is a moron. The majority of the citizens of Michigan are morons. Watch their industries and their state burn to the ground as decades of Democrat rule finally bears fruit…

I'll bet they will vote Democrat again next election. Kwame Kilpatrick for Governor - Jennifer Granholm for Senate. Rasheed Wallace for Mayor of Detroit. LOL.

Things are good in Texas our government is limitied unobtrusive and business friendly. Wages are fair. Welfare is low. Keep you lefties in Michigan please.

Comment by Tex — December 12, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
NEWS FLASH! EIGHT DEMOCRATS VOTED AGAINST THE BAILOUT AND FIVE REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR IT. THE UAW IS THE PROBLEM, STOP BLAMING CONGRESS FOR THEIR DAMN MESS. AND FOR THE RECORD, THE REPUBLICANS TRIED TO STOP THE $700B TARP AND DEFEATED IT ON THE FIRST VOTE, SO THEY WERE AGAINST THAT ONE, TOO. SO STOP WITH THE HYPOCRITE BARBS.

Comment by Debbie — December 12, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
I suggest that the denial of the bailout for the auto industry is actually VERY American. Jefferson wrote, "Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness" (we might think of happiness in fiscal terms in this instance). There are inherent risks in doing business, and just because American automakers foster a system deeply entrenched in financially unproductive practices (do yourself a favor and check out how much more employees of GM make than employees at: Toyota/Hyundai/BMW/Audi/& pretty much every foreign auto maker with plants in the US. When we include their fringe benefits, the number is OVER 100,000 a year. A ridiculous sum for people who work on a production line) Does NOT mean WE the taxpayers should have to bear the burden of their incompetence. We bailed out the financial sector because it is the backbone of our COUNTRY, whereas GM is the backbone of MICHIGAN. Why should people in NY, CA and everywhere else in the country not located near Detroit have to pay to bail out companies whose products many of us do not even use? Surely there was little leeway in the type of response the governor of Michigan could employ, but to call the denial of this bill "Un-American" is sheer stupidity. If we want to speak in technicalities, the bill itself is "Un-American". Apparently Ms. Granholm needs to take a few more economics and political science courses. Our capitalist society is based on Smith's "invisible hand," and while we are not completely devoid of governmental controls on the economy, bills like this are bringing us much closer to COMMUNISM than the capitalist democracy (essentially the American ideal) and the "city on a hill" we are supposed to be. Who is a CANADIAN to tell me what is and isn't American? Perhaps Ms. Granholm would be more productive if she shouldered some of the blame for the turmoil going in in HER OWN state, rather than asking the general populous for handouts to help alleviate problems most of us have ABSOLUTELY NO STAKE IN.

Comment by Michael — December 12, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
What is un-American is the level of government involvement in the private sector. Government interference is getting in the way of the process of creative destruction.

Poorly run businesses that offer inferior products should not be artificially propped up. I like Tahoes, Suburbans and Corvettes, but when I see Chevy, I think Chevette.

Where does congress or the white house get the power to dispense taxpayer money to favored industries? Where is that written in the constitution?

Comment by Tom H — December 12, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
Seems the damned unions refuse to negotiate!

They've for years practiced extortion by constantly demanding more benefits or go on strike and cause GM and Ford into bankruptcy.

Let's do likewise and they either lower the members pay to equal those at Toyota and Nissan or simply let the companies file for bankruptcy, have union members benefits slashed. If they still whine, fire them all and hire new blood..

It worked wonderfully when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers - so why not?

Comment by Neal — December 12, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
#390 Was it Jefferson who said, "A government big enough to give you anything you want - is strong enough to take everything you have." ??

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 4:20 pm
Unions were essential years ago in selected businesses - but we are in a deflationary environment.

Cities, counries, businesses are going under and will not beable to make ends meet.

People will be laid off and salaries cut.

The Auto Union does not get this. Salaries need to be cut, no more funds for not working, 50% cut in pensions then cut them off, no more health benefits for retired workers, better work rules.

And no bonuses for white collar employees for 3 years - inaddition to salary cuts.

If not let teh car companies die.

X

Comment by Silence is — December 12, 2008 @ 4:21 pm
Democrats voting against Democrat programs… THATS change I can believe in. THATS the change we need America! :o) Reagen Revolution II

Comment by Mark (DPRNJ) — December 12, 2008 @ 4:21 pm
What is "un-American" is to nationalise a previously private corporation.

"In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment."

- Charles Darwin

If American automakers go the way of the Do Do Bird, it is because they did not adapt to their environment, and NOT because Americans did not bail them out.

Comment by One_American — December 12, 2008 @ 4:22 pm
She is so wrong! It's unAmerican to force tax payers to fork over their earnings to finance the auto industry or any other private enterprise. Tell this liberal wench to study American History!

Comment by Pat — December 12, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
This is called GBW…Government By Whining…which is what this Governor is good at. Thirty year old chickens are coming home to roost, thanks to the UAW. And I live in Michigan, so I've had a first-hand look at this ongoing slow-motion disaster. No surprise here.

Comment by Richard — December 12, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
Granholm has one thing right…"You give this big bailout to these financial institutions�don�t ask a single question, they can do what they want"

Stupid Republicans…they NEVER should have voted for the $750 billion.

Comment by John Mulholland — December 12, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
One car manufacturer lost 65 Billion dollars last year. We are suppose to give them more billions of dollars. What guarantees do we have that this money is not going to go down the same rat hole where the other went? What guarantees do we have that a month from now they won't be back asking for more? As for the governor. Sounds like blackmail. 'If you don't give us the money….dire things will happen….". If the big three auto companies are such a lynchpin of our economy and "can not be allowed to fail" then it is time to dismantle them and/or downsize them so that they are not such a danger to our ecomomy. Or threat to our fiscal well being.

Comment by Richard — December 12, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
As others have already stated; the $700B for the financial organizations was to free up credit but has not been managed well so it should not have been done. The auto industry will not go under if they file bankruptcy but will be able to get their house in order. If workers at foreign auto companies can make a living, domestic workers need to learn how. It will work no different than the airlines that go bankrupt, they usually come back as better companines.

Comment by Alan — December 12, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
What is un-American is expecting the American taxpayer to sacrifice to support the stubborn Union members who do not want to sacrifice. Also the Union members who are retired expect the American taxpayer to fund their health care and pensions - if the Union and management had not been so greedy and incompetent then maybe they would not need a bailout.

Greedy unions, greedy CEO's, greedy Dems, and greedy Republicans - now that is mass un-Americanism.

Kick all the bums out.

Comment by George in Cincy — December 12, 2008 @ 4:28 pm
Hey Laurie #332, you can start holding your breath anytime you want as far as I'm concerned. I bust my a$$ at a 100% commission sales job that takes me on the road, away from my family over 15 days a month. If I don't sell I don't get paid. I love my job and I work hard at it, and I don't expect anyone to bail me out if I don't make it and I vote republican so don't you dare presume that those on the right have it better than those on the left or that we don't understand what it's like to work from paycheck to paycheck. Your missing the boat sister. The unions (most) don't protect the worker anymore. At one time yes, they had a valuable purpose but today they simply are looking out for their own interests in order to keep a well fattened machine fat. Get with the program, this great nation was built on hard work and determination not entitlements. if you want to pontificate your hatred of the right go do it someplace else.

Comment by Indyaga — December 12, 2008 @ 4:28 pm
I've been witnessing this mental disorder happen in my town government for many years - politicians kowtow to the unions and promise to sign off on huge pension and benefit packages in order to get elected. The trouble is that the politicians are signing away OUR KID'S money in the future knowing damn well that they'll be long retired by the time the payment becomes due. GET UNIONS OUT OF GOVERNMENT! THEY ARE A FORM OF SHADOW GOVERNMENT IN WHICH WE GET ZERO REPRESENTATION! (Start tossing tea in harbor…)

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
This is typical blue state that has been run into the ground over years. The government there with the freebies and special give-aways to the UAW and auto companies is coming to fruition. If the auto companies lose 3 million jobs over this, then they weren't very good businesses anyway. The members of the UAW have been coddled with high salaries for little work for years. Now maybe it's time to live like most other people.

Comment by Timmeh — December 12, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
When I see public SERVANTS such as the governor of Michigan start behaving like they run the show, and all in kahoots with each other to do the opposite of the will of the people, day in day out, that's the day I stand up and say….

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH.

Liberty is preferred, but seeing that we have SERVANTS trying to lord over the MASTERS, and they clearly won't let go without a fight, looks to me like we're in for a fight to the DEATH.

Yeah!

It's getting to that point!

We need to dump the tea in the harbor……

Comment by Perry — December 12, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
Gov. Grandholm needs to blame Pres. Bill Clinton (a Democrat, BTW) who pushed through the disastrous NAFTA treaty in 1993. Now, the automakers are the LAST INDUSTRY WE HAVE LEFT. Thanks to the Democrats and their UN-AMERICAN treaty, which destroyed our entire economic base and pushed wages off a cliff, we are propping up an industry that is unable to compete against lower-wage jobs. Detroit's competitors aren't even the slave-wage jobs that destroyed the garment industry, so I don't know why we're getting so upset NOW, 15 years later.

Comment by Stephen A. — December 12, 2008 @ 4:30 pm
I think it is un-American to expect the tax payer to bailout every miss-managed business.

Why should people who make $20.00 an hour be forced to bailout people who make $25.00 to $30.00

Comment by Bill — December 12, 2008 @ 4:30 pm
AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED TO ALL UN-AMERICANS WHO HAVE BOUGHT FOREIGN OR WHO MIGHT BE BUYING FOREIGN IN THE FUTURE THAT YOU WERE ALSO PART OF THE PROBLEM WHY THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY IN THIS COUNTRY WENT TO HELL BECAUSE EVERY TIME SOME UN-AMERICAN BUYS A FOREIGN CAR THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DONE TO SOME AMERICAN WORKER AT GM GOING OUT AND BUYING A FOREIGN CAR SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING THAT GOOD OLE UN-AMERICAN WHEN YOU DRIVE AROUND IN YOUR COMMUNIST VEHICLES. IF I WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT THIS COUNTRY OF OURS WOULDN'T BE THE SAME AFTER WHAT I WOULD DO TO STOP THE BULLSHIT THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS

Comment by laurie — December 12, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
#399 Alan, thank you for that. You are entirely correct - the airline industry is a PERFECT example of how bankruptcy is supposed to work.

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
GM is paying about $3.5 million dollars a week for thousands of employees in the "job bank" to sit around and read a paper, book or watch TV.
Why not start there and see what else can be cleaned up.

Comment by Ken K — December 12, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
In the words of a famous net-leftie… Screw them. I feel nothing for them.

It will make me happy to see worthless UAW clowns and jet-setting execs walking the street. Maybe they will learn to make a good product instead of passing off crap with hyped up marketing. Screw GM, Ford and Chrysler and all that are associated with them. They are reaping their deserves for 35 years of sloppy work leading to crappy automobiles.

Comment by Mike — December 12, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
You know its true hate from the Left since Republicans are both Wall St fat cats and Redneck imbeciles. Wow do we have pull over here on the Right! Everybody can get behind our ideals! Maybe even honest, decent, hardworking Americans… Oh wait thats what we are.

Keep your laws off my company and investments!

Comment by Mark (DPRNJ) — December 12, 2008 @ 4:34 pm
HEY 401 COMMENT PERSON BOO HOO HOO I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY YOU MEAN NOTHING TO ME

Comment by laurie — December 12, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
Laurie is a fascist who wants to dictate what you may and may not buy. Even if the product that she forces you to purchase is inferior, doesn't work well and costs more. Good call laurie. you will fit in real well with a lot of people in Washington who think just like you. And are the reason we are in so much trouble now.

Comment by Richard — December 12, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
I am for the bailout, Mr. Governor as long as all union contracts are immediately cancelled.

Comment by Tom — December 12, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
Unions and government interference destroyed the U.S. textile industry, the U.S. steel industry, Eastern Airlines and countless other businesses. Now it's the auto industry. When will they learn that they have to compete to succeed. That's what life is all about…survival of the fittest. Work hard and apply yourself and you can do anything. Work the minimum amount required and show no ownership in what you are doing and you get your check, until your business is no longer competitive and then you get squat. Wake up fast or you will all be out on the street. The taxpayers not subsidizing your ticket anymore.

Comment by Mark in IAH — December 12, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
#407 Laurie–You know you build an inferior product….Calm yourself—have a shot of Tequila.

Comment by RRR — December 12, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
The results of polls I've seen show that as much as 60% of Americans do not favor a government bailout of the auto industry. Are they un-American?

Comment by Bob T — December 12, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
By the way…we drive a Crysler Pacifica and a Ford Taurus.

Comment by Mark in IAH — December 12, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
I am so mad that this elected official speaks of the vote against the auto bail out as un American.
Who in the hell does she think she is? It's un American to forcibly take ones earnings to give to the unearners. This crao has been going on too long and it must come to a stop before another civil war is declared between the earners earners and the non earners. To hell with the overpaid union workers. Let them compete in the free market where they should. $71.00 per hour, give me a break. And by the way, impeach the worthless Michigan governor for her lack of understanding what America is about. If she wants a socialist country, she should go to Canada and have to put up with their high taxes and inferior health care system.

Comment by Virginian — December 12, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
Laurie #407 - BS! If it wasn't for foreign competition, US cars would cost twice as much as they do now. Welcome to the REAL world! Ford is doing GREAT in Europe by the way. What do you have to say about THAT? HMMM? Do you want Brits denouncing everyone in Britain that drives a Ford?

MANY of the Hondas, Toyota's and BMW's you see people driving here are made RIGHT HERE by AMERICAN workers! (non union ones that really work for their pay or get fired like most of us..)

Take off the pinky ring and do an honest days work for a change.

Comment by Mike M — December 12, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
If you all keep buying the shit I build, I'll keep building it…HAHAHA…

Comment by UAW BROTHER — December 12, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
Hey Laurie 412, If that's the best your stunning intelect you can do you have just proven the argument of everyone here who is against bailing out a union who has screwed the American public for far too long. Thanks for the help!

Comment by Indyaga — December 12, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
I am so conservative that I make Ronald Reagan look like a New Dealer, evidently. But, that having been said, the Unions have done precisely what they are supposed to do: Get everything, including the kitchen sink, that they can extort from Management. Management alone is to blame for this debacle, and their big mistake in the early 1990's was bowing to the UAW's insane demands vis-a-vis "Job Security". Both Wagoner and Stemple were weak in those glory days, not wanting to upset the gravy train. But, they all buckled to union demands, lest the assembly lines halt and the stockholder price sink for a quarter or two. Now look at the mess Management has created. DO NOT FAULT THE UNIONS. GM (in particular) has been an unwieldy behemouth for three decades, and if its component parts were broken up, it could shed the layers upon layers of useless dead wood.

By the way: Jennifer Granholm is a pearl-handled, gold plated, diamond encrusted idiot. She spoke of "Blowing Us Away" with her economic wisdom. Sure enough: 475,000 Michiganians have "blown away"; far, far away… to other states…

Comment by John Aresn — December 12, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
THese stinking, lying, syncophants like Granholm wouldn't know American if it marched on them by the tens of thousands demanding their resignation or face charges of treason againt America and it's Constitution. The AMerican sheeple are, by and large too stupid and apathetic to understand that they have been sold out now for many many years by their elected officials.

Comment by mauricio — December 12, 2008 @ 4:42 pm
Un-Wahamerican! You are whinning so much you could bottle it. There is more whine in Detroit right now than California!

Na-na-na-na Na-na-na-na Hey-Hey-Hey UAW Good-Bye!

Comment by The South Will Rise Again — December 12, 2008 @ 4:44 pm
To Laurie and her comment 407, who the hell are you to tell me what kind of car I should drive? I'm pretty sure that the freedom we are allocated in this country means I can do with my wages what I please. Is it my fault that American manufacturers can't compete with foreign companies (a notion we can see displayed in the subtle ways American cars have begun to look EXTREMELY similar to their European counterparts). What stake do I have in American car manufacturers? NONE. You make it seem as though I HAVE to support this industry merely because it's American. I have the right to preference, and just because my preference leads me away from American cars does not make me any less American. If you were elected to president as you suggest; which I might add, would never happen, as most can tell through your vernacular that your level of education would not support such a position, you would be a FASCIST. It is actually you who is Un-American dear. Don't lay the standard guilt trip on me, "think about all the jobs that are lost because you support a foreign market instead of our own," because your line of thinking is flawed. IF YOU DRIVE A FOREIGN CAR IT WAS PROBABLY PRODUCED IN THE US, WITH US LABOR ANYWAY.

Comment by Michael — December 12, 2008 @ 4:45 pm
Republican senators are the main reason Congress has such a low approval rating! Congressional approval rating is about 10%, which means about 90% of America DOES NOT THINK CONGRESS DOES A GOOD JOB! Their rating is much lower than Bush.

Shelby and other morons are going to make this into a depression. The only way the USA got out of a depression the last time was by war. FDR's policies and politics only made it worse and longer than it needed to be.

US auto companies were heros for helping to win WW2. So much for gratitude. DC gives hundreds of billions with no toxic grilling. AIG gets to party and they did not have to present any viability plan. HYPOCRACY, double standard!

AIG failure vs Gm failure/ no comparison with respect to JOBS.

Perhaps DC should care more about our industries and our jobs rather than letting josb disappear and our technology migrate to India and China.

Congress are losers! Much more than the UAW!

Comment by Dennis — December 12, 2008 @ 4:46 pm
So, mauricio, are you the product of a public school education? Thank GOD that you're in the know about how dumb the American people are. We never would have known it without you.

Comment by marytee — December 12, 2008 @ 4:47 pm
The next thing to get rid of is Obama, but his state may take care of that with its scandalous ways. Mr. Rahm–gone by 1/20.

Comment by dork-us — December 12, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Oh and another ting (wiseguyspeak)this card check or whatever system Dems are pushing for union organizing. Supposedly it does not allow for secret ballots. Instead a UNION GOON shows up at a worker's residence (or car in the parking lot) and persuades (?) the worker to sign that he/she approves the union. Now who is going to monitor that activity and the tabulation? The unions? What is up with that BS?

Since when is not allowing the privacy of the secret ballot going by the wayside? Sounds like another concession to the unions. And sounds like harassment. Workers better get their protection before BO and the Dems outlaw such. You may need such to fend off the Goons. Get your pit bull now and train it to protect you.

If you keep your pit bull in the car leave the window cracked please.

Look out Wal-Mart the Unions are coming for you.

Comment by George in Cincy — December 12, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Dear Trailer Trash Laurie,

Give it up—you've lost the battle and the war!

Comment by RRR — December 12, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Laurie 407 It was a sacastic joke right? You can't really think that can you? Because even "American Cars" are bulit with over 50% foreign made components.

Comment by The South Will Rise Again — December 12, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
The last person we should be listening to is this incompetant Gov. The unions and the democrats are pushing this country into a recession and the republicans lack the stones to stop them. Right now, there are tens of thousands of retired auto workers, 50 yrs old , retired , siiting on a beach making 50K plus from their pension. Plus 100% health care and a whole bag of other goodies. And we should bail them out. End the UAW and sloppy mgt, amnd the problems will improve.

Comment by martin — December 12, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
Y'all hate the UAW so much and want them to go away forever. But a bigger problem is GMs commitment to retirees. Those folks will lose 25-30% of their retirement. So not only will 3million lose their jobs, but millions of retirees will lose 25+% of their income.

THAT SPELLS DEPRESSION.

Tough stabilizing housing when the market will continue to get flooded with inventory. and the only way to clear inventory is from whoever is left working, but they will NOT be in a mood to spend…OR by foreigners from China who are flush with cash.

Perhaps China should take over the USA, their form of government seems to do better for the books and they seem to have mcuh less CROOKS like Illinois governor, Hastert, Paulson, Cox, etc. USA government is corrupt.

Comment by Dennis — December 12, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
The government has no business forcefully taking money from people who produce in order to give it to those who don't produce, such as those leeches in the old and tired American auto industry. The unions created this mess and they should fix it. This governor should pound sand.

Comment by GEW — December 12, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
Jennifer Granholm may have a point that it is patriotic to bail out the car companies… That is if you are a Socialist country. I didn't put my life on the line for a Socialist country although I fear that the US is becoming more socialist everyday. The American people even voted Barack Obama for president. How much more socialist can you get?

Actually the car companies should go for chap 11 and have a bankruptcy judge oversee the restructuring including the UAW agreements. Let the big 3 come back their own. Now that's patriotic.

Comment by Fernao de Magalhaes — December 12, 2008 @ 4:55 pm
Are we forgetting that Union dues covers the cost of being unemployed when striking?

Where is all that money the Unions are holding now that can pay benefits to the union members who paid in all those years if the auto's collapse?

I never buy any product with the "Union Label" Unions are Un -American

Comment by mike schnezler — December 12, 2008 @ 4:55 pm
People can blame who they choose but the problem lays with the free enterprise system. Why should all these high priced workers be out of work when it's un American for our congress to give them my money, even though it's involuntary? We should be forced to buy American products regardless of the cost, even though there are other less expensive alternatives available. We should feel patriotic to have our government forcably take our money to support those making the equivalent of $70 per hour, with benefits included. What we really need is our government to take over these major corporations and show the rest of the people how well they can run a business. Use Freddie Mae, Freddy Mac, and our social security system as an example of competence! My only wish is that I made more money so that I could give, sorry, have the government take, more than they do already. I wonder if I would feel more patriotic, more American if I gave all I made and went on welfare?

Comment by Nancy — December 12, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
The Big 3…UAW…bailout? Not with my tax money. It is their poor mgt and work ethic that caused this. Suffer the fate of your own doing.

Comment by LT — December 12, 2008 @ 4:57 pm
73$/hr and they can't match the 43$/hr employees in Tennessee for quality of workmanship. Give me a break. The UAW shares a big part of the blame and I have no sympathy for them. Better to let GM go out of business than to fall in the hands of a government "Car Czar." End result: more jobs for the rest of the country.

Comment by Jeff — December 12, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Well, it looks like Laurie took her toys and went home or maybe she went to get some union enforcers for back up. Oh well.

Comment by Indyaga — December 12, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Let's face it folks. The Car company's will eventually get at least 14 billion. Bush wants to give it to them out of TARP so they don't go down on his watch. Here is my promise. Any company that takes Taxpayer dollars to stay afloat has lost my business forever. I have not bought a Chrysler since the last bailout, and I will NEVER buy another GM product if they take taxpayer money. I don't have to. There are other/better options. UAW slogan should be, if you don't buy are cars, we'll take you money anyway.

Comment by garabel — December 12, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Ron Paul was so right.Blame the Federal Reserve.Get ready for the coming beast,inflation.No stopping the coming depression, bailout or not.Google Ron Paul or Peter Schiff. Austrian Economics is the real "Change" we need.

Comment by T.Jones Sr. — December 12, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
For laurie (#407) — I am sure the US would really be different if you "WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT." Your ignorance is nearly as astounding as your terrible prose.

Comment by GEW — December 12, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
Nancy (#438) — Great comment. You are right on the money.

Comment by GEW — December 12, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
#434,
You hit the nail in the head…I have been to China and feel safer there than in this country.

Comment by RRR — December 12, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
The argument that people will not buy cars if the BIG 3 opt for bankruptcy is absurd.

Remember when Lee Iacocca took over Chrysler and it almost went out of business? He built better cars and the minivan which people bought in droves.

Its the product, and its the cost of the product. Unions cause the product to be more expensive.

This is why KIA was doing so well in this country, they built decent cars for a lot less money!

Comment by mike schnezler — December 12, 2008 @ 5:01 pm
Dennis, I guess that just goes to show you that there is a certain level of personal responsibility involved in life. Nothing in life is gauranteed but, now there are three things in life that are certain…death, taxes, and federal bailouts. Don't worry I'm sure we'll have to bailout the retirees as well!

Comment by Indyaga — December 12, 2008 @ 5:03 pm
Running a beautiful industry into the ground with crappy cars and a ridiculous union.. thats unAmerican. Moron. Bailing out Ceberus? Thats unAmerican. Idiot. Bailing out the company that makes the Hummer, H2 & H3? That's unAmerican. Sh*thead.

Comment by lknnoodle — December 12, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
As a Michigan resident I am against the bailout. All Jennifer Granholm cares about is trying to save face as she deals with one of the worst State economies in the country. She has failed Michigan and calling people names isn't going to draw attention from that fact.

Also, the automotive big 3 wouldn't be in the situation they are in if they had not caved into the UAW time after time. Lets be honest, the workers would not have as much as they do now if the UAW wasn't there, but now they face not having jobs because the UAW gouged the Big 3 to much over the years.

If the UAW went away the only people out of a job would be the actual people running the UAW. The auto workers would still have jobs after reorganizing in chapter 11 with less perks but a job is better than no job. But the heads of the UAW would have to (Oh My GOD!) get real jobs and do actual labor. What a concept. The time of greed is over. The average worker in the USA does not get the perks afforded to auto workers by the UAW. It's time the auto workers lived like the rest of us.

Comment by Case — December 12, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
I drive a Honda, made right here in the USA, I support American workers. How many plants do the big 3 have in overseas?

GM employs more people overseas than it does in the US. Why Should I help bail them out!

What a joke….

Comment by Dave — December 12, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
What is really unAmerican is the media bias.

The media never covers how lavishly the union leaders live: how many residences does UAW Gettelfinger have?

Same for the gov of Michigan? Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan?

Ditto for Millionaire Democrats - such as Dodd, Pelosi, Reid, Barney Frank and the many congressional dem millionaires.

But the media will draw attention to Republicans' largesse at the drop of the hat.

We need equal opportunity here.

Comment by George in Cincy — December 12, 2008 @ 5:05 pm
Trailer Trash Laurie,

Wanna Hook Up?

Comment by UAW BROTHER — December 12, 2008 @ 5:05 pm
Un American? The auto workers and the people of Michigan deserve her and what they are experiencing now. Over paid workers at 71.00 per hour is not worth neithet my sympathy nor my tax dollars. They should be forced to file reorganization bankruptcy like all the major airlines did. Using my hard earned money to bail private businesses is un American period. Let these unionworkers suck the blood out of someone else. I should not be compeled to pay for their failure. That's UN AMERICAN!!!

Comment by American — December 12, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
In regards to comment #407, Laurie, do some research before calling people Un-American for buying "foreign" cars. Look at who owns, or shares joint ventures with these foreign companies. GM: Suzuki, SAAB, Daewoo, Fiat; Ford: Jaguar, Volvo, Peugeot, Toyota; and Chrysler: Mitsubishi, Daimler, Volkswagen. So, which ones are the "communist" vehicles? Here's a link to a map of who own who. And, you're welcome for me having to do the research for you you lazy, reactionary moron.
http://jalopnik.com/372339/who-owns-who

Comment by Spence — December 12, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
All we are doing is bailing out the unions and their fat cat leaders. I will make it a point to NOT buy GM or Chrysler again.

Comment by warren — December 12, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
It's time the UAW faces reality and realizes current market forces can no longer support overpaying workers by over 40%. It's so funny how the disingenuous Dems refuse to see the elephant in the corner (UAW) has always been the root of the problem for the big 3. If the UAW won't even come to the table then F them and their simpleton unskilled workers. Enjoy the $25/hr wages in bankruptcy reorganization and be happy knowing that you could have had $50/hr had you just come to the table and done your part to avert Chapter 11.

Comment by Dan — December 12, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
This is indicative of the convoluted logic of the modern liberal. It's the fault of Republican Senators who vote against the bailout that auto makers can't run profitable companies. It's "un-American" to blame everybody else for YOUR problems.

Comment by r j ross — December 12, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
The American people should vote buy only buying American cars–from Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen, Hyundai, and Honda. I for one will never buy a GM, Chrysler, or Ford product again. At this point I want to see them out of business! Three million is NOT enough UAW jobs lost!

Comment by Rudy Obnoxious — December 12, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
If the bailout or TARP goes through, I will never buy another car produced by the UAW.

Comment by Grey — December 12, 2008 @ 5:16 pm
What a jerk! I live in michigan and this lady has been a total failure. she needs to be promoted and go to washington, DC to join her fellow failures.

Comment by john nicholson — December 12, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
Un-American. Nice remark coming from a Socialist. The Free Market is American… The UAW is Un-American by not offering concessions in the deal. If Chapter 11 worked for the Airlines… it will work for the auto industry. I say lay the whole Union off and hire back those who are willing to work for competitive wages. We can wait.

Comment by jdog — December 12, 2008 @ 5:22 pm
@ Todd Bandrowsky

No one is outsourcing any jobs to Japan. They are simply building cars here in the south, where we have right to work laws. If you suck, your fired, no consulting the union rep. Plus the fact that the plant has no union in the first place. The UAW is the bane of this entire country. Second only to the NEA. I read Grapes of Wrath, it was all very romantic back in the 30's and 40's, but now, it's a parasitic organization that will literally live up to that comparison when it kills its host the auto industry.

Comment by David — December 12, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
Well of course the jackass governor thinks that it's normal and expected to have the government bail out a business… she's from socialist Canada. Build a car that is on par with Toyota or Honda as far as quality/value is concerned and you wouldn't have a problem. Oh, and not overpaying your workers by twice their value might help too.

Comment by Aaron — December 12, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
The big three were failing BEFORE our financial crisis. Never throw good money after bad. With the products Detroit is producing they will be out of business in six months anyway. They claim to have the same quality as the Japanese. If that is true how come the resale value of Japanese cars is higher than comparable American models? Even when the Japanese cars are manufactured in the U.S. I think it is un-American to continue to push Detroit crap onto the American consumer.The big 3 have let down the American auto worker not the consumer.

Comment by Nathan — December 12, 2008 @ 5:26 pm
It's time…..

Jenny is a disgrace, and Obama can have her. Heck, I'll drive her to Washington myself, drop her off on the doorsteps of Obama.

Hey Jenny, how about going and getting the jobs you gave away overseas?

You foolish Democrats, all you want are handouts from the government and when you can't get it, you call us "Un-American".

Stabinow should keep an eye on her husband and Jenny should pack her bags. Once we get the trash out of Michigan, maybe we can start to clean up the state.

Comment by Sandy J. — December 12, 2008 @ 5:29 pm
It never made sense to me why the UAW would basically extort money from their employers and not realize this might eventually have a negative impact on their jobs. Now that the time has come to pay for those decisions they want the American tax payer, who is also hurting in this economy, to keep their salary and beneifts at normal levels while the company they work for is hanging on for dear life. That is not only un-American but idiotic. Make the needed concessions so people can keep their jobs and the company can return a profit in order to satisfy investors and spur growth, R&D, and further restructuring. You reap what you sow Union backers. Move to a right to work state if you want a job. The days of graduating high school and walking into a cozy Union job for the rest of your days is over. Compete or die, that is capitalism. Only the strong survive.

Comment by Slash — December 12, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
Granholm is coo-coo. Michigan is in the shape it is in because of the liberal mindset there. The Unions (favorites of the leftist Democrats) have just killed the state. The golden goose is just about dead. Two things need to happen. First, the UAW leadership needs to take a hike, and second, Obama needs to announce that he will REDUCE capital gains taxes to about 12%. The world will become so much brighter almost overnight.

Comment by RightStuff — December 12, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
More like Anti-Chinese Communism. The big three can declare bankruptsy and reconstitute themselves in right to work states.

Comment by mec — December 12, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
How long will it take for man to learn, that they do not learn from history? Answer: when they start eating each other to stay alive, they will all repent, … Time is almost up, and the idiocracy of this once great nation is proof, that if there is noone smarter than this to run our country, the devil is going to be having a field day soon, and these poor souls are going to be his personal B*T*HES…

Comment by Nobody — December 12, 2008 @ 5:33 pm
Good for the Senate GOP. Finally, some responsible politicians standing up for responsible use of tax dollars.

The bailout to financial institutions was provided based on the understanding that, without the bailout, the entire financial system would have collapsed. That would have hurt EVERY company in EVERY sector in North America. A bailout for the Big Three is different. The entire auto industry is not at risk, and the entire economy is not at risk. We can let the big three "fail"; a bailout isn't essential. And let's face it: one of the reasons the Big Three aren't competitive is because they pay much higher wages than their competitors. It's not just "management's fault". If they don't address labour costs then they won't avoid bankruptcy, they'll just delay it.

Comment by Mike — December 12, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
What is un-american is detroit failed on making a car that was worth it.that was un-american.when foreign car dealers can make a beeter car than the state that first produced them, you michigan are un-american.If i had the decision, you would be finished.And by the way, i am from Michigan.

Comment by ran — December 12, 2008 @ 5:41 pm
why should the car companys get a bailout they should do like all the other companys do that cant compeat you have your product made in china ,it seem that is what the gov. wants to happen! SO WHO IT SCREWING WHO??this problem was created by rep. and dem. that where we need to make changes get statesman and honest judges that are for America…

Comment by gene — December 12, 2008 @ 5:50 pm
Michigan, DIVERSIFY. And I'm not talking race here, but rather industry.
I'm also sorry for the situation your workers find themselves, but hey…they're the ones who conceived, founded, funded, and continue to vote the UAW way. Is ANYONE making a connection between these issues?!?

Comment by punkindrublic — December 12, 2008 @ 5:51 pm
Bailouts are un-American and anti-capitalist. More of the same to come with the Marxist messiah.

Comment by BlueMax372 — December 12, 2008 @ 5:52 pm
As soon as American automakers (and other manufacturers) realize that they can't afford to locate in leftist blue states, where they have to pander to mobster unions, then they may yet survive.

Comment by One_American — December 12, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
I'm sure these UAW workers will land on their feet. Afterall, they must have some highly marketable skills to command $70 an hour in wages and benefits, right? Surely some other industry will gladly pay them comparably for their unique talents, even without the union's big stick. Right?

Comment by steve-o — December 12, 2008 @ 5:57 pm
The Michigan governor is from Canada. She's UNAMERICAN!

Comment by Rod M. — December 12, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
If our government goes against the will of the people, and votes for a bailout of the big three….I WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER buy a GM, Ford, or Chrysler for the rest of my life, new or used. It will be a lifetime boycott. I encourage you to do the same.

Comment by Rod M. — December 12, 2008 @ 6:04 pm
Wow I just can't believe that a governor in this day & age can make such a stupid statement. It amazes me how low the bars is being lowered. I wonder who will line up next using the same argument, just shuffle the names, "you bailed out the automakers, why not bail out the newspapers" "you bailed out the newspapers, why not bail out major news networks" ….. If the gov thinks that the action was unamerican, she has no clue about america…. Your citizens must be proud of you.

Comment by Tom — December 12, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
Un-American? Lemme see, investing trillions of dollars in bailouts and behind closed door deals, that must be American. Ignoring the obvious problems in bad financial paper, that must be American. Ordering the cessation of legitimate checks on applications for home mortgages in submission to crooked organization, that must be American. American WAS a limited Federal government and freedom to the people so they can make it or break it on their own. And now a member of the socialist democrat elite calls Senators un-American for daring to vote against the socialist agenda. Don't cry governor, "O" will get the agenda on track in January.

Comment by Geo — December 12, 2008 @ 6:07 pm
Jennifer Granholm is a Canadian, not to mention carrying another of their traits; socialism. She has no business dictating what is American in the public sphere on such shaky standing of her own as to what is "American".

Comment by Nevin — December 12, 2008 @ 6:09 pm
1) The government should not be bailing anyone out. There are other ways to handle these issue and the average person or the small buisness would never get government money anyway
2) If the union would have taken a pay cut the deal would have been done, yes they would have been paid less money but they would have a job and be getting paid. What really bugs me is this isn't an auto bailout, it is a union bailout.

Comment by David Oakley — December 12, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
gee I wonder if all these problems the car companies are having could maybe, possibly…by some weird crazyiness…have something to do with the fact that they LOSE MONEY ON EVERY AUTOMOBILE SOLD??? But oh yeah…they would be evil devil capitalists if they were actually earning (GASP!)…profits???

Comment by chris — December 12, 2008 @ 6:12 pm
UnAmerican? Hmm…while I do reside in the socialist republic of Calfornia, I know UnAmerican when I see it, and Jenny doesn't know what she's talking about. American isn't socialism. American is the type of entrepreneurship and innovative nature that Jenny abhors. It is the same creative energy that only lives in a truly capitalist society. Socialism doesn't cut it. Communism doesn't cut it. The UAW doesn't cut it. Generally speaking, businesses must survive and/or prosper of their own merits and abilities to rise above others to succeed in all economies.
Surely, she would respond by pointing at the many banks that have been bailed out with taxpayer money. I agree! They should die and be buried with the rest of the lot. It is pure greed with no consciousness that has brought on the current financial crisis. It is pure greed with no consciousness that has brought on the inability of weak manufacturers to weather all economies that may rear their ugly heads. Some may disagree saying that the current financial crisis is behind the failure of the big 3. I can't disagree enough. If the big 3 had reserved the right to idle plants without incurring massive labor costs while idle, they would have weathered this storm. They can't by contract that the UAW refuses to renegotiate. They speak words but produce NO action. In a true American democratic, free system, they would be dead in the water. But here we are with the government promising to bail them out. I promise, they will never, ever, ever, ever, ever experience the weak hand they currently hold. Come 2009, the congress will empower them with 'card check' to run havoc over the AMERICAN system of entrepreneurship and free market capitalism in order to wring out paydays for decades to come from the American taxpayer. The American taxpayer response will be as either D'OHH!! or D'UUUHH!

Comment by gwmc7e — December 12, 2008 @ 6:17 pm
From the headline I thought the governor of Michigan was advising congress to vote against the auto bailout because nationalization is un-American. This astute observation is the polar opposite of what we would expect, and ultimately got, from the governor.

Comment by Christopher Solon — December 12, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
Interesting how everyone I have spoken to about this, and I mean people from all political perspectives, are adamantly against this bailout of the UAW. Un-American?! What an incredibly ignorant comment. Government bailout of the private sector?, now that's un-American.

Comment by Steve B. — December 12, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
You liberal idiots need to understand ONE thing about this Automakers bailout, or should I say the UAW bailout cause thats what it is you morons.

Toyota/Honda sold 14.7 million autos in the US last year, and came out with a net profit of 14 Billion dollars. The big 3 auto makers sold 14.7 million cars last year and had a net loss of 47 billion dollars. So tell me you liberal math gensuises why is that so?

all the big 3 assembly line workers make WAY to much money, you liberal bitch and moan when the CEO's fly to wash in their corp jets, but dont shed one iota of grief that the average auto worker for ford/chrys/GM make more then Nurses, Schoolteachers, COPS, Firemen, most small business owners. SO TELL ME AGAIN WHO DESERVES THE BAILOUT. Hell you dont even have to graduate high school to get a job in the auto industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comment by Steve Mink — December 12, 2008 @ 6:21 pm
So the rest of us should suffer so that the UAW does OK. We made a mistake in bailing out Wall Street and that is why erasers are put on pencils. I would rather live in a tent and grow my own vegetables than to continue with affirmative action bailout insanity. We live by rules and die by breaking them. If Detroit goes down it will be reborn because those assets are still intact and I can assure you that it will be lean and efficient and will re-grow at a staggering pace.

Comment by task — December 12, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
Toyota made $18,000,000,000 making and selling the same number of cars as GM, which lost $38,000,000,000. Nobody bitches either about Toyota quality or having products to sell that the market wants or advancing greener automotive technology.

In a free market, product price is determined by the low-cost provider. That is Toyota and any maker that can not compete with that cost structure will soon be driven out of business. Part of GM's fat cost structure is bloated management. But most of it is excessive labor and benefit costs.

The government should not waste a dime on propping up company with UAW workers that think they are entitled to excessive pay and benefits without corresponding productivity advantage because the result is still a company that fails. If the unions won't give, let GM and Chrysler go broke and the union members have nothing. Take it or leave it.

As an alternative, you can of course pay $2,500 more than for a Toyota for a lesser product from GM.

Comment by Liquidity — December 12, 2008 @ 6:23 pm
Anytime an unskilled laborer (UAW) is standing in a manufacturing line with a drill or what not and is making more than a college graduate I would say something is wrong. Uneducated, unskilled labor making $60 an hour or more is just wrong. Screw unions, i hope the industry fails just like any other business would in the great USA. Improvise, adapt and overcome…the american way.

Comment by JWilson — December 12, 2008 @ 6:24 pm
'"It is unacceptable for this un-American, frankly, behavior of these U.S. senators to cause this country to go from a recession into a depression," Granholm said during a radio interview Friday morning.'

What is un-American is that the House passed the dang thing. Approximately 61% of Americans oppose a taxpayer bailout of the Big Three & UAW (see: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/03/auto.poll/index.html?iref=mpstoryview).

Why are so many Democrats in Congress for it when most Americans oppose it? It couldn't be UAW political contributions… could it?

Comment by I'm With Stupid — December 12, 2008 @ 6:24 pm
Jennifer Granholm you are un-American for what you have done to our great state of Michigan. Go ahead blame Engler, Bush, etc. and fail to lead. Your absence of any real leadership has sped the decline of this great state. UAW + Democrats to go against republicans for decades and now…NOW you want their help? Great political maneuvering there you neophyte.

Comment by Michael P. — December 12, 2008 @ 6:27 pm
With respect, Governor, what's "un-American" is your belief your state's big industries are too good for the Chapter 11 bankruptcy process the rest of us have to use when we get in trouble. What's more American than "equality under the law," and why do you oppose that idea?

The financial bailout was bad enough. But banks really are different: They're not just one more industry; they're the tool the Federal Reserve and Treasury utilize to create the money supply. I'd prefer the government start from scratch, capitalizing new banks rather than recapitalizing the distressed ones, but it's still true that with banks, the bailout was less about preserving the companies themselves, than with preserving the money supply and preventing deflation.

Comment by Thomas — December 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Why not ask Silicon Valley to bail out Detroit in the form of moving some of their manufacturing there? Would it be so hard to retrofit factories so they can make processors, hard drives, etc. At this stage, Detroit is probably cost-competitive with China and Vietnam.

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
Cut the UAW employee wages in half and fire the CEOs, then we will talk bail-out.

It is ridiculous to pay CEOs millions of dollars, when they are failing!

How many working men and woman would survive on their jobs, if they were failing as miserably as these scum bags!

As for the UAW President, on the Today Show, he said, he would be prepared to offer lower wages, if all the people involved in making vehicles also took pay cuts.

He was stating, that the customer service order taker who makes $8 or less an hour for a supplier take a cut, that the UPS/FED-Ex driver, take a cut, etc.

The UAW employees are grossly overpaid, especially, if their starting wage is $23.40 per hour for any job that becomes open.

The retirement benefits are too lucrative. No wonder, most people can't afford new cards, when we are paying inflated costs due to inflated and insane wages.

In addition, no one in the auto industry in the US can re-tool, as quick as the Japanese or Koreans. They re-tool quickly based upon the market.

Right now, Ford is still making F-350's and other extremely large gas guzzlers and there is no market now, yet they refuse to change their product line to a smaller chassis and vehicle style and increase gas milage per the laws, yet they want us to give them a bail-out?

HELL NO!

Re-tool! Fire every CEO! Cut the starting wage in half, then we will talk!

Comment by Jeff Durbin — December 12, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
The article conveniently left out the part that 10 Republicans voted for it, 3 Democrats voted against it and so did….Harry Reid. Check it out. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081212/D95106M80.html

Comment by Always reading — December 12, 2008 @ 6:34 pm
Running an industry into the ground with terrible management and cars that people don't want…that's un-American. Protecting the taxpayers from getting involved with companies that need to go through bankruptcy to get their act together is Patriotic. You don't see Honda, Toyota and BMW begging for money…they all have significant operations in America and they also know how to make cars that run longer than the warranty, are fuel efficient, stylish and that Americans actually want to buy.

The Senate's repudiation of this bad idea is a great day for taxpayers and all of America.

Comment by M.M. — December 12, 2008 @ 6:38 pm
This sorry son of a bitch can't even consider the fact that communist labor unions are the ones not willing to compromise.

Comment by afed — December 12, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
Just what about FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM do'es the Governor not understand?

Comment by Hummmmm — December 12, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
I think the way the unions have turned our auto industry into the laughing stock of the world is "un-American".

Comment by Larry — December 12, 2008 @ 6:46 pm
The U.S. was once the leader in design and technology. The unions along with over regulation by the Fed government and piss poor management at the top have put us behind the Japanese. The workers at the non-union plants are employed and making a good living and building good cars. UAW…TAKE A HIKE!

Comment by Charlie — December 12, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
Why was there no whining about bankers' pay when the financial bailout was given? 700 billion dollars and nobody even blinked. I say give the carmakers a LOAN.

Comment by Ernie — December 12, 2008 @ 6:51 pm
I wonder what country GM and Ford will spend the bailout money that will eventually be approved. They'll use the $$ to "restructure", aka pay $100k to each laid off autoworker to go away and close a bunch of plants.

Maybe if folks didn't just HAVE to have everything they see in a store we'd be in better shape. Stop buying all the carp from China and save a little more. Or, if you have to spend, try to spend it on made in the USA (note that Toyotas and Hondas assembled here are just as American as GM cars assembled here from parts made in Mexico.

Comment by Christobol — December 12, 2008 @ 6:51 pm
If the big 3 get one cent of bailout money, I will NEVER EVER buy another Big 3 car. The auto industry will survive in America, but just not with a union or in a union state. When will Michigan and Detroit learn that the unions and liberals choke to death all manufacturing opportunities? Michigan is destined to live off of government handouts until they get rid of unions and the liberals.

Comment by Jimmy Meeks — December 12, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
…the Honorable Governor should review the United States Constitution, specifically Article I which describes the role of the Senate. If I understand this correctly, we have a sitting governor claiming the our most cherished right and liberty, the democratic vote, is un-American. With this type of inane thinking, one can readily see why Michigan is in such an economic mess. While running for her office, Governor Granholm asked the voters to give her four years and she would blow them away. Well, it has only been two years, and she's blown just about everything in Michigan away alright. Here's the problem: the Big 3 management teams are dumber than their governor. They should resign, and she should be recalled. Yeah, yeah, so she went to Berkeley and Harvard Law. The world is full of over educated idiots. Just wait until we have had two years of Obama under our belts. You think things are crazy now?

Comment by tony — December 12, 2008 @ 6:54 pm
A 52-35 defeat. Lets break this down…

Voting "yes" were 40 Democrats, 10 Republicans and 2 independents.

Voting "no" were 4 Democrats and 31 Republicans.

Democrats who voted No
Baucus, Mont.
Lincoln, Ark.
Reid, Nev.
Tester, Mont.

Democrats Not Voting
Biden, Del.
Kennedy, Mass.
Kerry, Mass.
Wyden, Ore.

If my math is correct, 4 no democrats plus 4 non-voting democrats equals 8…

52 + 8 = 60

Tell me again that it's all the Republicans fault?

Comment by Michael A. Davis — December 12, 2008 @ 6:58 pm
UnAmerican?! HA Yeah right! If these stupid ignorant overpaid and uneducated fools in the union don't want to take a pay cut then fine! Screw giving them any cash! Let the big 3 go down in flames!
As tax payers we can show the UAW our displeasure! Buy Toyota! Buy Honda!! That's what I did when I bought my Corolla and my wife bought a Scion TC!
The big 3 cars suck, the UAW auto workers attitudes suck! Now it sucks to be them when they are collection unemployment instead of a pay check when they all lose their jobs!

Comment by Bob Bologna — December 12, 2008 @ 6:59 pm
"Un-American?" From a Canadian? Really? What's Un-American is making $40/hr in a job pulling a lever every 10 seconds and having union(re: Mob) protection that eliminates the chance you will ever lose that job. Well, that may be Chicagoan, but not American.

Comment by Ted Begley II — December 12, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
Jennifer Granholm has'nt accomplished much of anything up here.She's a loser as a Governor and our once prosperous state has only gotten worse under her leadership.When elected the first time,she promised we'd all be "blown away" up here in 5 years by her accomplishments.What a joke!

How this ex-soap opera queen ever made it this far in politics is beyond me.And we don't need a ex-Canadian telling us we're 'un-American' for refusing to want to bailout the overpaid UAW up here or anywhere else!

Comment by Lonewolfmichigan — December 12, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
The governor is actually "un-american" — she is a Berkeley educated Canadian socialist.

Comment by John — December 12, 2008 @ 7:02 pm
i just read a guy makes over 100k to drive a forlift. are they kidding. let em go bankrupt and reorganize top to bottom. including labor contracts which is allowed under bankruptcy protection. to the UAW lol you screwed up for your workers, your greed shined. drink a pin-colata next time you are in miami and mull it over. what a joke over a 100k to drive a forklift.

Comment by carl6352 — December 12, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
All of this unintelligent bickering while US jobs are continually sent to India and China. If your job does not require constant people contact your job will be gone. Bill Clinton�s comment �China and India have more people and soon will be generating more capital then the US will become a third world country�

Merry Christmas.

Comment by Jim — December 12, 2008 @ 7:09 pm
I guess this just goes to prove being a governor of state doesn't prevent you from being a dumb ass! (Thanks to Red from "That 70's Show")

Comment by John S. — December 12, 2008 @ 7:11 pm
No bailout! UAW supported Obama. Let him put them back to work with all of those jobs he intends to create.

Comment by Mrs. Johnson — December 12, 2008 @ 7:53 pm
Auto Bailout Fails, Moonbats Come Unhinged

The plan to provide the US auto industry a bailout (bridge loans) failed last night when the Senate could not muster enough Republican support to get the bill through. I am glad the bill failed because taxpayer money should not be spent propping up co…

Trackback by Big Dogs House — December 12, 2008 @ 8:00 pm
dd,

Sorry, but a politician is not allowed to dictate the wages of the working man. At least not in the country I used to be proud of.

Comment by Samir — December 12, 2008 @ 8:37 pm
to all of those who applaud the difficulties that the UAW and GM are having…I�m applauding the fact that your home values are dropping, your IRA is down 50%, and your children will grow up in a jobless-depressed economy. The UAW/GM is against all of that. In fact the UAWs entire reason for existing is to provide a better life for all american workers. UAW/GM has been a success story for nearly 100 years, and that�s not measured just by their products, but the fact that they�ve allowed millions of americans to earn a decent pay, and to raise families, send their kids to college, buy the products that you sell. The facts are: 1.) UAW members are not paid $60-$70 dollars an hr; it�s more like $26- $30 an hour. 2.) UAW workers are lazy; not true, most factory jobs are much harder than many other blue/white collar job. there are many highly physical and repetitive task to complete, and failure to do job properly will result in discipline action being taken. 3.) GM products are inferior to foreign cars; good designs are cadillac CTS, corvette, chevy, G6, sky, solstice, malibu, etc, etc; high MPG (Aveo, cobalt, G5, Vibe, etc, etc); Quality- Honda and Toyota leads the pack in quality with GM not far behind but the flip side to that argument is why isn�t every car made by Honda or Toyota perfect, which would eliminate the need for a warranty. The reality is everyone who purchase a foreign car or any complex machine are faces with the same possibilities of flaws that�s why there�s a thing called a warranty. If you wants something that works perfectly every time go buy a spoon or a fork… 4.) American auto companies will eventually fail; couldn�t be more false. had it not been for this credit crises, sales wouldn�t have dropped in half, and that�s very significant. If we don�t preserve GM, then when the economy recovers we�re not going to be in a position to benefit from increased auto sales. Most of the money will be loss to over seas competitors. Senators should have supported the auto bailout �loan� just for the sake of industry preservation. when the economy recovers of course companies like GM will become viable but now is not the time for those arguments(smoke screen). there should be no doubt among Americans that the senators who didn�t support the auto bailout are largely un-American and if you live a state in which your senator voted again the measure i would ask that you vote them out.

Comment by D Mason — December 12, 2008 @ 8:38 pm
Our enemies are watching us like vultures. They think its funny to watch us squable over the government handouts. Why don't we have some dignity and use the tools left to us from generations past. We live in an enlightened age, technological age…..the most well informed society on the planet. We have the ability to see past the surface of any problem with experet surgical precision. We have the most advanced weaponry known to man……including a birds eye veiw from space. We have the finest doctors and hospitals in the world. I personaly think we have the best restraunts too. Foreigners flock to our universities and we allow them to. The most important thing (I can only compare to a verizon comercial) We have people! So lets put them to work for us and show the rest of the world how its done!

Comment by Fresh Laundry — December 12, 2008 @ 9:25 pm
lets tax foreign car companies like the american car companies instead of subsidies with american tax dollars and see how well they operate. american car companies pay millions in property tax while states like TN and AL pay car companies to be in there state. If every american would buy american we wouldnt have all the trouble

Comment by Taron — December 12, 2008 @ 9:36 pm
How about a different approach?
Why not give taxpayers a break and let everyone who purchases a NEW 2009 or 2010 vehicle manufactured in the U.S. (final point of assembly, for big three plus Honda, Toyota, others assembling vehicles here) to deduct up to $30,000 of the purchase price off of their 2009 adjusted gross income? That would help taxpayers, clear out inventories, put workers back to work, help companies supplying the manufacturers, and still force competition for the people's business which MIGHT encourage competition (better deals, better vehicles, etc.) and give the companies and unions time to get their acts together.
Comments????

Comment by Fred — December 12, 2008 @ 9:52 pm
i can appriciate your idea fred, i just baught a new dodge charger. However we need to stop supporting profits for the forign contries. I have nothing against the americans working for them as they have families to support. However if we all baught american, then there would be more jobs available for them to take in the american industry. lets keep out money here!!

Comment by Taron — December 12, 2008 @ 10:16 pm
Since when did the socialist Michigan govenor become educated about our patrotism - when she was going to school in Canada? What a joke!

Bottom line here is the consumer in this economy ultimately determines whether a company is successful via its selective purchasing power. If a company makes an inferior product, and there is another choice, the consumer will obviously buy the better product. Why is this fact so complicated for the intellectuals to understand?

Michigan is a perfect poster child of what it's like to be controlled by socialism. Anyone driving down Mack Ave. in the center of Detroit and observing all the debris and filth lining the street will get a good image of what socialism will do to any society. Unions in that state have utterly destroyed the big 3's ability to compete, and the federal government has contributed greatly as well.

Comment by gili4 — December 12, 2008 @ 10:31 pm
Granholm has ruined Michigan's economy attempting to pay off everyone who might vote for her. Now she wants us to bail her out. No thanks

Comment by Ken Hahn — December 12, 2008 @ 11:08 pm
It seems that everyone has forgot that we were warned that this would happen. Back in the 80-s when factories moved to china. also i dont hear anything about all the debts from other countries the republicans forgave for the war. how many billions ? how many billions and billions pumped into Iraq,then wall street, Today I am ASHAMED TO BE AN AMERIACN. iF GM FORD OR CHRYRSLR WERE A FORGIN COMPANY IAM SURE THE REPUBLICANS would give them there right arm plus billions and billions and billions……

Comment by Dale Spratt — December 12, 2008 @ 11:43 pm
to comment 525 gili4 and all like minded, I don�t have a problem with the governors comments on what�s un-American, because she�s right. we have 3 million americans whose jobs are tied to the big three auto makers. the senates vote to reject the auto bailout dose nothing to secure our economy, but dose everything to put it at more risk. The common perception it that GM was headed for failure and thats simply not the case. At some plants production was increasing to keep up with the demand for compact cars when gas prices were high. as soon as the credit crises hits every thing drops off a cliff. the auto bailout loans were meant to preserve our industry until a recovery occurs. Now because of the senates gross negligence we�re at even more risk. also according to mexicans, chinese, and indians all americans are paid too much. From the comments i�ve reading here free trade is good and it�s o.k. for everybody here to have their pay cut in half and that�s most certainly your future. Or we can adopt the UAWs philosophy and fight for better wages. and get responsible senators to preserve our way of life.

Comment by D Mason — December 12, 2008 @ 11:49 pm
The automakers should strip all the smog, catalytic converters, fuel recovery etc out of the cars they make and sell them as Five MPH racecars for a dry track only.
Let the outside parts stores sell the parts to make it 'street drivable' and outside mechanics to check it off as such.

Comment by Cecil — December 13, 2008 @ 12:51 am
Jennifer Granholm is without competence or shame.

Michigan's economy flaunts the highest unemployment in America.

Michigan's unemployment rate hovered around seven percent for much of Granholm's first term.

Michigan ranked #49 in retaining young adults between 2000 and 2005.

But for Granholm, it's "unAmerican" for some Republican senators to say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

For electing this fool, the citizens of Michigan should be ashamed.

Comment by Sisyphus — December 13, 2008 @ 2:32 am
because she knows that the actions of Republican senators will only farther destabilize our economy.

Comment by D Mason — December 13, 2008 @ 2:57 am
Ever wonder what a UAW contract looks like? It is over 2200 pages and weighs 22 pounds. It no wonder the big three can not compete in the global market. Honda and Toyota don't have to deal with that kind of crap. It would take a team of lawyers just to understand this document. 2215 pages of inefficiency brought to you by the UAW

Comment by The Intellecual Redneck — December 13, 2008 @ 7:16 am
Some people do not think that this auto help will affect them, trust me it will. Compaines from makers of hand tools to carpet will be hit. If you think the southern asses are out to help any of Americans, boy are you dumb. The compaines in the south are the ones that people have to have. You also do not have a say in any thing the company does, even if it is letting you go over their buddy. Now do not tell me this has not affected some of you or at the least some one you know. It is the good old boys at their best. The BEST they have is cutting Americans down the back and they will tell you it is in the best interest of all and or for Gods. They do not need you or me, they think they have a job that no one else can do. That might be true, not every one is the worst of the human race. I have lived in the North and South, I love the south for it is a slower pace, but the north will make sure all are treated the same. You might not like what they say, and that is all right for them and they will fight for you to have that right. The South will only fight if you think the same way as they do.

Comment by CAROL — December 13, 2008 @ 11:52 am
I love Jenny and the UAW, you people
complaining can take a hike, You are
unAmerican and a bunch of haters!

Comment by Annie — December 13, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
Un-American? What a hoot from an inept Canadian
born socialist! Why not propose legislation changing Michigan to a right to work state? NOOO
that won't get votes or money from the Unions.

Why not lower taxes including income, business, and personal property? NOOOOOO we need da money

Why not offer businesses incentives to stay in your bankrupt, corrupt state? EH, say what?

For sale: 4,000 leftover bumper stickers that say…WILL THE LAST ONE OUT OF MICHIGAN PLEASE TURN OUT THE LIGHTS? Pay for shipping only.

Comment by NCbigmouth — December 13, 2008 @ 12:38 pm
Granholm echoes a refrain which is becoming popular among many people on the left: that it is unfair for Republicans to insist upon concessions from auto workers after giving a pass to people employed in the financial industry. Ignoring for a moment the fact that many people employed in the financial industry lost their jobs and that Lehman Brothers did in fact go under, the fact remains that TARP was pushed primarily by the Bush Administration and suported most heavily by Congressional Democrats, the same actors who are supporting a largely unconditional bailout of the domestic auto industry. It was Congressional Republicans who led resistance to TARP and now offer resistance to the proposed auto bailout for the simple reason that without concessions from management and labor alike the auto industry will not be viable and will require further taxpayer assistance in the near future. It is Democrats who are being inconsistent if not hypocritical by insisting that the UAW be exempt from any sacrifice as if they bear no responsibility for the domestic auto industry's plight.

Comment by Mactavish — December 13, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
Even by the most conservative estimates, the cost of NOT loaning the money to the auto companies will be greater than it will be to loan it to them. This is because of the costs of lost income taxes, unemployment, welfare, health care, etc. to the state and federal governments. The senators who are against the loans understand this, but they want to see the American companies fail, even at severe risk to country's economy, because they are beholden to the foreign automakers that they are in bed with. That, my friends, is un-American (or even anti-American), and that is what Granholm is referring to.

Comment by Biff — December 14, 2008 @ 3:28 am
If they don't want to accept salary and benefits cuts, the big 3 should file for bankrupcy and get it over with. We are in a free society and we should not embrace socialism. It comes with an even higher costs than the bailouts.

The benefits just can't be paid anymore, unless they are willing to fail.

Comment by cris — December 14, 2008 @ 4:40 am
It is absolutly unamerican to vote for the welfare the big 3 wanted and whoever voted in favor of it should be impeached. If the big 3 had made a product that people wanted to buy, this wouldn't be happening. They say their losing $1000.00 per car. If they had made changes instead of business as usual, this wouldn't be happening. If the AWU and management had been willing to work for a little les, this wouldn't have been happening. The industry could have easily prevented this several ways. They have no one to blame but themselves for this. Workers and management alike. All welfare for companies that mismanage themselves into trouble should stop this second. Mike Huckabee had the best idea I've heard yet. Auto companies want 26 billion, buy 26 billion in cars, give them to people that really need them. Auto companies have their welfare and Americans are helped instead of hurt.

Comment by Michael Gibson — December 14, 2008 @ 8:47 am
hello people! WAKE UP!!!
this issue is not just about the union workers, the govenor of michigan, or the bigwig execs of GM, Chrysler, and Ford. its about being a responsible citizen and helping your own economy by BUYING AMERICAN. if people had just bought american goods, then the incredibly large economic troubles we are having would be lessened. china has never done anything good for us in the past few years, except send us toys and other goods contaminated with lead and other hazardous chemicals. its the same story with all of the other foreign-manufactured goods that we stupidly buy in order to save a few bucks now. this plan WILL and HAS backfired many times, often costing individuals hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal and medical fees. no matter your opinion on this controversial issue, PLEASE BUY AMERICAN!!!
and send granholm to china or antartica. i live in michigan, and if i was old enough to vote, i would NOT have voted for her….and i am a democrat. please pray for our leaders-they need it!!!

Comment by Courtney — December 14, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
You are correct, the Chinese and Japanese did not help us win any war, as a matter of fact fought against us. It is important to remember who DID help us win the wars and build our economy. The Big 3! Built airplanes etc to fight with, took zero percent to keep us going after 9/11 and have sustained the manufacturing industry for years and years…not to go back to the beginning of the automotive era. Just having mobility avaiulable to everyone, which was Henry Ford's plan, has made huge improvements in America. Let's thank the automotive industry instead of directing every vitriolic comment you can think of toward them. But you are also correct, the UAW has to go!!!!!

Comment by jeanniebaby — December 14, 2008 @ 5:15 pm
Here is another thought…any business supplies what the customer wants. It is stupid and arrogant to think otherwise. American people like and buy, (voting with their dollars is a strong vote), big vehicles. SUVs, vans, trucks and now crossovers are in huge demand! The only time people suddenly get "size" conscious is when gas prices go crazy and they feel it in their pockets. Have you noticed that now that gas prices are down, suvs, trucks and other larger vehicles are selling again? (The fuel efficient vehicles are available and just sit!) Let's not be so short sighted! By the way, check out the fuel economy of the Japanese trucks and SUVs. They,(the Japanese automakers), are trying to get a share of what they know Americans buy and their products are unsafe and get terrible fuel economy! Get the story right!!!!!

Comment by jeanniebaby — December 14, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Monday morning links - posted early

I am away tomorrow morning. Busy on a�job in Dallas. Yes, Texas is booming with biz and jobs, unlike much of the world.Have you read Vanderleun's The Star yet?Classical Values takes a look at the defunct Packard assembly plant Corporate DNA. CoyoteSi…

Trackback by Maggie's Farm — December 14, 2008 @ 5:56 pm
The car companies can thank enviromental nazis, federal govt, unions and themselves for their present situation. I do not want to bail out someone who makes $70/hr and has a better retirement package than me. Let the car companies follow the examples set by the air line industry. File for chapter 11 and reorganize.

Comment by c webber — December 14, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
For all you idiots who can only engage in finger pointing you don't get it. Regardless of who is to blame we're at this point in time and the Republicans as usual are to stupid to realize there is much more at stake than just punishing the UAW for voting democratic. This plan at least had accountability and teeth whereas now they will get the money anyway without it because of the Republicans. Why is it so hard to understand we are on the verge of a depression and they don't care because they won't be the ones to suffer financially. All they understand is good ole boy mentality which is to protect thier own interest at any costs regardless of what happens to the country as a whole. Sadly I've considered myself a Republican in the past but the times are a changin and many people like myself are seeing what the republican party really represents and that is corporate interests without any restraints. Which brings us to where we are today.

Comment by I M Gibson — December 15, 2008 @ 10:02 am
Samir said:

"Sorry, but a politician is not allowed to dictate the wages of the working man. At least not in the country I used to be proud of."

Comment by Samir � December 12, 2008 @ 8:37 pm

Most taxpayers make a small fraction of the average UAW employee's compensation. If the company you work for can no longer afford to operate because of high wages, maybe they should have asked to renegotiate union contracts before they begged for a taxpayer bailout. I don't make as much as the average UAW worker (not even close) yet you demand that I subsidize your wage? That doesn't sound American to me. I am sorry that you are no longer proud of your country, but the country I am proud of doesn't reward failure.

Comment by dd — December 15, 2008 @ 11:51 am
I find it very questionable why the bill to bail out the big 3 does not allow for the UAW to be negotiated. You say that it is not the Unions fault for getting us into the mess but now beacuse the cost on a per hour basis is 2X's what it is costing the non-union Auto makers to build cars that are 2x's better in quality. what are we really getting for our $$.

Lets call it what it is: Payback to the Unions for the presidency. If they will not allow their contracts to be renogtiated then I would Vote NO! let them go into Chapter 11 where they have to renegotiate thier contracts.

Comment by Mike — December 15, 2008 @ 3:30 pm
There are many reasons why the bailout of Wall street and the auto industry is wrong but most importantly because the federal government is far more powerful than it was ever meant to be. Now the government can be a stockholder? Sounds too much like socialism.

http://www.theartdeptchronicles.blogspot.com

Comment by aaron4unitruth — December 22, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
"Enjoy your cheese, because when the unemployment rate goes from 6.6% to 16.6% with the loss of over 3 million jobs in the OEM, and the supplier base, and car parts grow more scarce, you will find another sobering perspective.
If we can bail out the freakin banking industry that the government legislated into oblivion with CRA, why can we not bail out the auto industry, that the government has legislated into oblivion also?

Comment by Mike � December 12, 2008 @ 1:01 pm "

Two points on this… even if we lost 3,000,000 jobs that would only make the unemployment rate go to 8.6% (It's easy math if you actually care to get your facts straight. Secondly, any use of taxpayer (government) money is extortion. If people are so passionate about "saving" one company or another let them do so voluntarily with their own money. In simpler terms…. two "wrongs" do not make a "right".

Comment by Patrick — December 31, 2008 @ 8:36 am
The problem with this country is not the cars, but the people. American car companies are in trouble because of bad management and contracts with workers that should be re-negotiated. Let�s face it most people are re-negotiating their contracts and careers each day.

The people who designed and built these cars are not bad people and if anyone would bother to take a look, they produced great cars.
Maybe, if the american people gave these cars a chance and at least entertained buying an American car, maybe these companies can crawl out of the hole they are in.

I mean how many people today buy BMW and Mercedes without even looking at the new entries from Cadillac and Lincoln. I hate to say this but keeping Germans employed will not help fund our social security for seniors. There will be no money going to our federal and state coffers when you buy German or Korean. There will be no German�s buying houses in your neighborhood to keep the value of your house from dropping.There is an exception to this rule, because companies like Toyota and Honda do build cars in the U.S. These companies at least supply jobs to U.S. workers even though the profits go back to Japan.

Maybe if Americans who at least give American products a chance, we can get out of this economic mess.

For more on this subject and some stats on foreign vs. domestic cars, read my blog:

http://www.greatamericancars.blogspot.com

Comment by Peter , Bethpage, NY — March 31, 2009 @ 9:59 pm

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December 12, 2008

Mich. Gov.: Vote Against Auto Bailout "Un-American"

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